ZF 6 speed engine removal
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 62
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From: Farmington Hills MI
ZF 6 speed engine removal
Guys,
I'm almost ready to pull the engine out of the car. I had one question. First, the trans will stay in the car. Is it easier to unbolt the bellhousing from the engine and pull it, or unbolt the bellhousing from the trans and pull it?
Second, I'm not familiar with the clutch fork setup on this car. I've worked only on BW T56's in the past. My question is how to get the fork to disengage. On the T56, you can simply pull it off the throwout bearing. On this, there is no room to do that. I assume that it's engaged around the throwout bearing on the clutch side, and somehow attached to the pivot point on the trans side. Is that right? Regardless of which side I separate the bellhousing, I'm going to have to get the fork to release. So how?
Thanks.
Todd
I'm almost ready to pull the engine out of the car. I had one question. First, the trans will stay in the car. Is it easier to unbolt the bellhousing from the engine and pull it, or unbolt the bellhousing from the trans and pull it?
Second, I'm not familiar with the clutch fork setup on this car. I've worked only on BW T56's in the past. My question is how to get the fork to disengage. On the T56, you can simply pull it off the throwout bearing. On this, there is no room to do that. I assume that it's engaged around the throwout bearing on the clutch side, and somehow attached to the pivot point on the trans side. Is that right? Regardless of which side I separate the bellhousing, I'm going to have to get the fork to release. So how?
Thanks.
Todd
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
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Likes: 9
Re: ZF 6 speed engine removal (ToddC4)
Well the easiest way to remove the clutch fork is to remove the tranny, then you can just push it off the throwout bearing, problem is you're not wanting to do it that way so I honestly don't know what to tell you. Can't just pull on it like the f-bodies do.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,564
Likes: 109
From: Austin Texas
Re: ZF 6 speed engine removal (ToddC4)
All I can say is 3 words....
DON'T DO IT!!!!
The trans needs to come out first. I had one heck of a job wrestling mine in/out with it out of the way, and you want to try it with the ZF in?
Second, you'll never get it stabbed when you try installing it. You'll spend more time screwing around with those issues than just taking the darn thing out. It is also a perfect time to swap out that shifter for one that really works....whatever your personal choice is (for shifters).
DON'T DO IT!!!!
The trans needs to come out first. I had one heck of a job wrestling mine in/out with it out of the way, and you want to try it with the ZF in?
Second, you'll never get it stabbed when you try installing it. You'll spend more time screwing around with those issues than just taking the darn thing out. It is also a perfect time to swap out that shifter for one that really works....whatever your personal choice is (for shifters).
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From: No more yankee my wankee, the Donger is tired!
Re: ZF 6 speed engine removal (Joe90)
All I can say is 3 words....
DON'T DO IT!!!!
The trans needs to come out first. I had one heck of a job wrestling mine in/out with it out of the way, and you want to try it with the ZF in?
Second, you'll never get it stabbed when you try installing it. You'll spend more time screwing around with those issues than just taking the darn thing out. It is also a perfect time to swap out that shifter for one that really works....whatever your personal choice is (for shifters).
DON'T DO IT!!!!
The trans needs to come out first. I had one heck of a job wrestling mine in/out with it out of the way, and you want to try it with the ZF in?
Second, you'll never get it stabbed when you try installing it. You'll spend more time screwing around with those issues than just taking the darn thing out. It is also a perfect time to swap out that shifter for one that really works....whatever your personal choice is (for shifters).
:withstupid: Remove the tranny, it is not that hard, and life will be easier on yourself.
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Farmington Hills MI
Re: ZF 6 speed engine removal (ToddC4)
No, it's not that I didn't want to do it that way. Until I just got the information I was looking for, I didn't know there was another option. What I needed to know and found out was that the fork pivot is attached to the bellhousing, not to the trans like the T56. That eliminates the problem of what to do with the fork, because clearly if you take the trans/bellhousing flange apart, it will just slide off.
And I'm not sure what you're worried about yanking the motor with the trans still in the car! I've done it many times! Just not in this car. For the '89, the repair documentation calls for supporting the trans from the underneath, but leaving it in the vehicle.
If I decide it would be easier to remove it, it will not be a problem getting it out of the way.
Since somebody mentioned shifters, I guess now would be a good time to ask opinions. As a rule, I am a firm believer that anything B&M makes is junk, but it could be ok here. I've only seen units by them and Hurst. Are the actual components in both kits the same more or less or are there big differences? Any other manufacturers out there?
And I'm not sure what you're worried about yanking the motor with the trans still in the car! I've done it many times! Just not in this car. For the '89, the repair documentation calls for supporting the trans from the underneath, but leaving it in the vehicle.
If I decide it would be easier to remove it, it will not be a problem getting it out of the way.
Since somebody mentioned shifters, I guess now would be a good time to ask opinions. As a rule, I am a firm believer that anything B&M makes is junk, but it could be ok here. I've only seen units by them and Hurst. Are the actual components in both kits the same more or less or are there big differences? Any other manufacturers out there?
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
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Re: ZF 6 speed engine removal (ToddC4)
Well essentially you're gonna find two sides to the shift wars, those who like the B&M and those who like the Hurst. Each side respectively thinks that the other is junk.
I don't know what B&M products you've used before but every Hurst shifter I've ever dealt with has been crap. That's alright though because it's just a difference of opinion. If you don't like B&M just because they are B&M then go with the Hurst, but please don't talk bad about the B&M in until you've driven one. Qualified opinions are fine but saying you don't like one product from a company due to some of the other products that company makes isn't really valid. GM makes a TON of vehicles that I feel are complete junk but that doesn't stop me from owning a Vette.
[Modified by Nathan Plemons, 3:02 PM 2/18/2003]
I don't know what B&M products you've used before but every Hurst shifter I've ever dealt with has been crap. That's alright though because it's just a difference of opinion. If you don't like B&M just because they are B&M then go with the Hurst, but please don't talk bad about the B&M in until you've driven one. Qualified opinions are fine but saying you don't like one product from a company due to some of the other products that company makes isn't really valid. GM makes a TON of vehicles that I feel are complete junk but that doesn't stop me from owning a Vette.
[Modified by Nathan Plemons, 3:02 PM 2/18/2003]
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
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From: San Pedro CA
Re: ZF 6 speed engine removal (Nathan Plemons)
:iagree:
I have a hurst shifter. I am very happy with the improvement in feel and quality of shift.
Personally, I have never used a B&M shifter. I would like to try one, just for the comparison.
From what I have read, there seems to be a consensus that the Hurst is better for road racing/autox, where the B&M is better for drag racing.
I have a hurst shifter. I am very happy with the improvement in feel and quality of shift.
Personally, I have never used a B&M shifter. I would like to try one, just for the comparison.
From what I have read, there seems to be a consensus that the Hurst is better for road racing/autox, where the B&M is better for drag racing.
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Joined: Apr 2000
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From: Clarkston Mi
Re: ZF 6 speed engine removal (ToddC4)
You're in Fenton. Where is that w/reference to Plymouth?
Either way, you will have to remove the drive shaft, (may as well replace the Ujoints) and the trans. Take the trans off of the bell housing, slide her out of there, with a jack to support. The trans is not heavy, but rather awkward to work with.
Have fun!!
Either way, you will have to remove the drive shaft, (may as well replace the Ujoints) and the trans. Take the trans off of the bell housing, slide her out of there, with a jack to support. The trans is not heavy, but rather awkward to work with.
Have fun!!
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 62
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From: Farmington Hills MI
Re: ZF 6 speed engine removal (ToddC4)
Every Hurst shifter I've worked with has been great. On the other hand, the B&M ripper for the T56 feels pretty good.
B&M torque converters are complete junk, and it's especially nice when they wipe out a fresh trans build. Their automatic trannies are also pretty poor, but OD autos are inherently pretty poor. The B&M megashifter for autos is the most pathetic embarassing peice of high performance equipment I've ever had the displeasure of installing/using. Their tranny coolers are very cheap and poor quality and the kits are incomplete. This is just my personal experience.
One shifter being good for drag racing but not for road racing makes little sense to me! Throws are throws and finding the right gear in the right gate is the same! I'm most concerned about build quality and positive feel, as well as short throws and strong centering.
Are the actual components the same in both kits? Same number/type of parts and peices and stuff?
B&M torque converters are complete junk, and it's especially nice when they wipe out a fresh trans build. Their automatic trannies are also pretty poor, but OD autos are inherently pretty poor. The B&M megashifter for autos is the most pathetic embarassing peice of high performance equipment I've ever had the displeasure of installing/using. Their tranny coolers are very cheap and poor quality and the kits are incomplete. This is just my personal experience.
One shifter being good for drag racing but not for road racing makes little sense to me! Throws are throws and finding the right gear in the right gate is the same! I'm most concerned about build quality and positive feel, as well as short throws and strong centering.
Are the actual components the same in both kits? Same number/type of parts and peices and stuff?
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,564
Likes: 109
From: Austin Texas
Re: ZF 6 speed engine removal (ToddC4)
Not sure on the parts for the Ripper...I've driven one a few times but never installed one - someone elses car. (BTW...I had a Ripper come out in my hand one time on a road course....not sure if that was build quality or someone's stupidity on the installation).
There isn't a lot with the Hurst. It is basically a new billet shifter. You disassemble the old shifter and replace the old stick with their new one. It has a few shims and a tube of grease in the package and that is about it.
[Modified by Joe90, 8:49 AM 2/19/2003]
There isn't a lot with the Hurst. It is basically a new billet shifter. You disassemble the old shifter and replace the old stick with their new one. It has a few shims and a tube of grease in the package and that is about it.
[Modified by Joe90, 8:49 AM 2/19/2003]
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Advanced
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 62
Likes: 2
From: Farmington Hills MI
Re: ZF 6 speed engine removal (Joe90)
From what I've seen, the kits are very different, from a few pictures in magazines. The Hurst kit looks much less complete than the B&M. That doesn't necessarily make it worse, but I was still wondering.
I was hoping someone had experience with both of them. It's interesting that the kits seem to be so different.
Are those the only two options for shifters on the market?
I was hoping someone had experience with both of them. It's interesting that the kits seem to be so different.
Are those the only two options for shifters on the market?
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,897
Likes: 0
From: La Fontaine Indiana
Re: ZF 6 speed engine removal (ToddC4)
No, it's not that I didn't want to do it that way. Until I just got the information I was looking for, I didn't know there was another option. What I needed to know and found out was that the fork pivot is attached to the bellhousing, not to the trans like the T56. That eliminates the problem of what to do with the fork, because clearly if you take the trans/bellhousing flange apart, it will just slide off.
And I'm not sure what you're worried about yanking the motor with the trans still in the car! I've done it many times! Just not in this car. For the '89, the repair documentation calls for supporting the trans from the underneath, but leaving it in the vehicle.
If I decide it would be easier to remove it, it will not be a problem getting it out of the way.
Since somebody mentioned shifters, I guess now would be a good time to ask opinions. As a rule, I am a firm believer that anything B&M makes is junk, but it could be ok here. I've only seen units by them and Hurst. Are the actual components in both kits the same more or less or are there big differences? Any other manufacturers out there?
And I'm not sure what you're worried about yanking the motor with the trans still in the car! I've done it many times! Just not in this car. For the '89, the repair documentation calls for supporting the trans from the underneath, but leaving it in the vehicle.
If I decide it would be easier to remove it, it will not be a problem getting it out of the way.
Since somebody mentioned shifters, I guess now would be a good time to ask opinions. As a rule, I am a firm believer that anything B&M makes is junk, but it could be ok here. I've only seen units by them and Hurst. Are the actual components in both kits the same more or less or are there big differences? Any other manufacturers out there?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 16
From: Phoenix AZ
Re: ZF 6 speed engine removal (bogus)
:iagree:
I have a hurst shifter. I am very happy with the improvement in feel and quality of shift.
Personally, I have never used a B&M shifter. I would like to try one, just for the comparison.
From what I have read, there seems to be a consensus that the Hurst is better for road racing/autox, where the B&M is better for drag racing.
I have a hurst shifter. I am very happy with the improvement in feel and quality of shift.
Personally, I have never used a B&M shifter. I would like to try one, just for the comparison.
From what I have read, there seems to be a consensus that the Hurst is better for road racing/autox, where the B&M is better for drag racing.
[Modified by vetracer, 10:09 PM 2/19/2003]
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,564
Likes: 109
From: Austin Texas
Re: ZF 6 speed engine removal (ToddC4)
Kurt White makes a short-throw kit for the ZF6...it is nice that it retains the reverse lock-out, but the dust-boot will tera after time.
Those are the only 3....
Those are the only 3....
