Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ??
02-19-2003, 08:22 PM
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ??
Is he lying? I was always told they are. I had the vette in for a check up because i was losing coolant and saw some hanging off of the radiator shrowd .. they didn't find anything, and then he said - oh, by the way you need to get the injectors fully cleaned on that thing. Carbon build up starts effecting the injectors around this many miles (only 48k.... ). Then he also said he recommends an engine flush to clean the piston rings... WTF???
I smell a BIG FAT LIAR HERE! I though injectors were self cleaning, my engine with 130k miles on it needed a flush, not my nice clean LT4 with 48k on it, and where the hell is my coolant going then ?? I seriously doubt there is a blown headgasket.
[Modified by GlockLT4, 7:22 PM 2/19/2003]
I smell a BIG FAT LIAR HERE! I though injectors were self cleaning, my engine with 130k miles on it needed a flush, not my nice clean LT4 with 48k on it, and where the hell is my coolant going then ?? I seriously doubt there is a blown headgasket.
[Modified by GlockLT4, 7:22 PM 2/19/2003]
02-19-2003, 08:51 PM
#3
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (GlockLT4)
I read somewhere that they were self cleaning after a certain year and not to put cleaner in gas. I wish I could remember where I saw it. As far as getting the piston rings flushed in your car w/48k $ound$ like a rip-off. If that oil has been changed w/ mobile one regularly, that should not be necessary. JMHO but I would not go back there. Guy
02-19-2003, 09:30 PM
#5
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (GlockLT4)
Sounds like the dealer is trying to meet his quota using your walet. I've heard
the later C4 injectors were designed not to clog. Never heard about it being self cleaning. I would focus on cleaning the throttle body.
Hank
the later C4 injectors were designed not to clog. Never heard about it being self cleaning. I would focus on cleaning the throttle body.
Hank
02-19-2003, 09:44 PM
#6
Team Owner
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (GlockLT4)
run a can of BG Products 44K through the tank. life will be grand.
as for carbon build up? I have heard of that as being a problem in newer motors. however, carbon is a result combustion, so, with the injector outside the combustion chamber, how does it get carboned up? sounds like a crock to me.
their idea of an engine flush is seafoam.
And I would bet money the leak is a weapy hose.
[Modified by bogus, 9:45 PM 2/19/2003]
as for carbon build up? I have heard of that as being a problem in newer motors. however, carbon is a result combustion, so, with the injector outside the combustion chamber, how does it get carboned up? sounds like a crock to me.
their idea of an engine flush is seafoam.
And I would bet money the leak is a weapy hose.
[Modified by bogus, 9:45 PM 2/19/2003]
02-19-2003, 10:35 PM
#7
Drifting
Member Since: Apr 2002
Location: Owensboro Ky
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Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (bogus)
Let see if I can remember this right. They changed from Bosch to Multec injectors in 1989 I believe because the pintle on the earlier injectors would get carbon build up and cause the inj. to stay open and leak. The newer injectors have a disc that rotates and isn't as likely to get carbon build up and thus self cleaning when it opens and closes. And I've also heard that since the coil is inside on the newer inj; and since it used the fuel to cool the coil, that cleaner is a no-no because it can break down the coil.
[Modified by ZAD54, 11:18 PM 2/20/2003]
[Modified by ZAD54, 11:18 PM 2/20/2003]
02-19-2003, 10:53 PM
#8
Race Director
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (GlockLT4)
I would just throw some stuff in the tank yourself. I used a full bottle of red line fuel injector cleaner with a full tank of gas from pep boys and that will last for 100k miles. Save the money for other mods.
Kitt
Kitt
02-19-2003, 11:04 PM
#9
Drifting
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (kittmaster)
GM Top End cleaner.
Spray it through your TB with the engine running. Let it idle for around 20 minutes. Then go out and run it.
Works great.
Spray it through your TB with the engine running. Let it idle for around 20 minutes. Then go out and run it.
Works great.
02-19-2003, 11:24 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Nov 2002
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St. Jude Donor '06
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (GlockLT4)
If the engine idle is smooth I wouldn't worry, the repair shop seem to think you are a easy mark. It's easy labor and high profit return.
02-20-2003, 12:32 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (GlockLT4)
When I took mine to the dealer right after purchase for a last check before to warranty ran out they gave me the induction cleaning lecture. They hook the car up to some machine and run some cleaner through it with the engine running for 90 min and then change the oil ($130). I went for it cause my wifes' accord had to have the ports in her plenum reamed out from being clogged completely. Check engine light came on. After it was done, there was no real difference in the way either car ran. BTW her car had 140k, mine 40k at the time. I was likeley taken for $130 in the end.
02-20-2003, 02:07 AM
#12
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (bogus)
as for carbon build up? I have heard of that as being a problem in newer motors. however, carbon is a result combustion, so, with the injector outside the combustion chamber, how does it get carboned up? sounds like a crock to me.
their idea of an engine flush is seafoam.
And I would bet money the leak is a weapy hose.
[Modified by bogus, 9:45 PM 2/19/2003]
their idea of an engine flush is seafoam.
And I would bet money the leak is a weapy hose.
[Modified by bogus, 9:45 PM 2/19/2003]
yep, flush is probably sea foam. I think i'll take my chances without it! If the '94 lasted 134k miles, that's fine with me... this one should last as long - and i will have torn it down by then anyway hahah. :D
02-20-2003, 02:08 AM
#13
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (kittmaster)
I would just throw some stuff in the tank yourself. I used a full bottle of red line fuel injector cleaner with a full tank of gas from pep boys and that will last for 100k miles. Save the money for other mods.
Kitt
Kitt
02-20-2003, 02:09 AM
#14
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (GusBustamanteJr)
GM Top End cleaner.
Spray it through your TB with the engine running. Let it idle for around 20 minutes. Then go out and run it.
Works great.
Spray it through your TB with the engine running. Let it idle for around 20 minutes. Then go out and run it.
Works great.
02-20-2003, 02:10 AM
#15
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (grapeknutz)
If the engine idle is smooth I wouldn't worry, the repair shop seem to think you are a easy mark. It's easy labor and high profit return.
02-20-2003, 02:11 AM
#16
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (C4DC)
When I took mine to the dealer right after purchase for a last check before to warranty ran out they gave me the induction cleaning lecture. They hook the car up to some machine and run some cleaner through it with the engine running for 90 min and then change the oil ($130). I went for it cause my wifes' accord had to have the ports in her plenum reamed out from being clogged completely. Check engine light came on. After it was done, there was no real difference in the way either car ran. BTW her car had 140k, mine 40k at the time. I was likeley taken for $130 in the end.
02-20-2003, 09:20 AM
#17
Le Mans Master
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (kittmaster)
I would just throw some stuff in the tank yourself. I used a full bottle of red line fuel injector cleaner with a full tank of gas from pep boys and that will last for 100k miles. Save the money for other mods.
Kitt
Kitt
General Motors issued a technical service bulletin (#913126E) cautioning service technicians not to clean its "Multec" fuel injectors. The GM bulletin said cleaners containing methanol or other strong solvents may damage the injector’s coil wire insulation and accelerate wear in the injector ball and seat. The bulletin also said cleaning is usually no value with this style of injector
The original Multec 1 injector was used from 1985 through 1999. In this injector design, the electrical coil was exposed to the fuel that passed through the injector. The fuel acted as a coolant for the coil. Some high alcohol content fuels and cleaners could erode the insulation on the coils, leading to a failure.To address the condition, the Multec 2 injector was introduced in1999. Its design is much different from the Multec 1 in that the internal coil is separated from the fuel that is passing through the injector. This eliminates coil shorting due to insulation erosion.
02-20-2003, 10:21 AM
#18
Safety Car
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (ZAD54)
Let see if I can remember this right. They changed from Bosch to Motec injectors in 1989 I believe because the pittle on the earlier injectors would get carbon build up and cause the inj. to stay open and leak. The newer injectors have a disc that rotates and isn't as likely to get carbon build up and thus self cleaning when it opens and closes. And I've also heard that since the coil is inside on the newer inj; and since it used the fuel to cool the coil, that cleaner is a no-no because it can break down the coil.
However, it should be pointed out, that the screen/filter on where the fuel enters the top of the injector can become plugged.
With the Multec injectors, the manual says not to put any additives in the fuel, because this can cause a breakdown of the coil insulation.
I had an '86 Ford Ranger with the "pintle" style injectors and they definitely formed deposits on the pintle -- made a big difference when I replaced them.
However, the disc style Multec injectors are supposed to stay clean due to the disc rotating and the fact that they are recessed into the injector away from the intake gasses.
Tom Piper
02-20-2003, 10:47 AM
#19
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Re: Dealer says injectors aren't self cleaning... ?? (Tom Piper)
Let see if I can remember this right. They changed from Bosch to Motec injectors in 1989 I believe because the pittle on the earlier injectors would get carbon build up and cause the inj. to stay open and leak. The newer injectors have a disc that rotates and isn't as likely to get carbon build up and thus self cleaning when it opens and closes. And I've also heard that since the coil is inside on the newer inj; and since it used the fuel to cool the coil, that cleaner is a no-no because it can break down the coil.
This is what I have read too.
However, it should be pointed out, that the screen/filter on where the fuel enters the top of the injector can become plugged.
With the Multec injectors, the manual says not to put any additives in the fuel, because this can cause a breakdown of the coil insulation.
I had an '86 Ford Ranger with the "pintle" style injectors and they definitely formed deposits on the pintle -- made a big difference when I replaced them.
However, the disc style Multec injectors are supposed to stay clean due to the disc rotating and the fact that they are recessed into the injector away from the intake gasses.
Tom Piper
This is what I have read too.
However, it should be pointed out, that the screen/filter on where the fuel enters the top of the injector can become plugged.
With the Multec injectors, the manual says not to put any additives in the fuel, because this can cause a breakdown of the coil insulation.
I had an '86 Ford Ranger with the "pintle" style injectors and they definitely formed deposits on the pintle -- made a big difference when I replaced them.
However, the disc style Multec injectors are supposed to stay clean due to the disc rotating and the fact that they are recessed into the injector away from the intake gasses.
Tom Piper
Ok- TWO things wrong there. First, he doesn't know the vehicle. If you don't know the vehicle, you have a set of service manuals for every GM car at every dealer.... GO LOOK IT UP! It's obvious that i know corvettes.
Second, injectors don't spray fuel into the combustion chamber - they atomize fuel into the air in the intake which then goes into the cylinder after passing through the valves..... i don't like this guy - not going back to him. Something about me being half his age and knowing multiples x's the knowledge about cars doesn't seem right considering he works at a dealer.... :rolleyes:
[Modified by GlockLT4, 9:48 AM 2/20/2003]
02-20-2003, 12:32 PM
#20
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Re: Injector cleaner??? (lani's 93)
I don't think you have anything to worry about right off... with more useage you will wear them down more... so if you've used cleaner a few times, don't worry about it, just stop doing so. Chevron Techron is ok to use if you insist on using something.