Just came in from another night in the garage, taking apart a perfectly good running 89 preparing it for long tube hooker 2149 (with smog) headers :D

Pulled apart the passenger side tonight, when in a moment of frustration and exhaustion because of the cramped working conditions I began thinking "I don't need no stinking air pump". The idea's really started to take root. Maybe I just want to clear up some the clutter once and for all.

The car's been technically illegal (no pre-cats) for the past two years and passes NY emissions effortlessly. I need (would like) to keep passing emissions, I know the visual will fail but I'm not too concerned about that.

For those who have aleady removed it, please let me know what if any issues there are and whether you'd to it again based on your results. Buying the eliminator bracket is just a little more money in an aleady big hole so I'm not even going there.

I know there's probably a lot of threads to search, but give a tired old guy a break tonight and I promise to be good tomorrow.

Thanks :cheers:

 

All it does is get the cat warmed up, after that it doesnt really do anything. You dont need it to pass an emissions test, unless the engine is cold.

 

When I installed the Hookers (with smog) on my 90, I ditched all of the AIR hoses/piping and just put pipe caps on the headers. The pump is still there but not connected to anything. I kept it because I did not want to spend the $$ for the eliminator.

I would definately chuck it. No codes will be thrown and the car won't notice. Right now it pumps air into space under the hood - noise is not noticable.

Dale

 

and it would be the fasted 30 lbs you're ever going to lose. :D

 

You guys make it sound so good, I think I need to do this mod. :yesnod:

 

This is not correct.

The primary purpose of the Air Injection Reactor (A.I.R.)
pump is to add 02 after the exhaust valve to help ensure
the unburnt fuel (hydrocarbons) passing through gets fired.
Its operation serves to reduce HC, CO and NOx emissions.

A secondary role is to bring the cats up to operating
temperature faster than they would reach it otherwise.

My pump is functional even though there is no testing
where I live. I kind of like the idea of not having my
fun too much at the expense of my kid(s) & their kids.
And besides, if the mfr's can make cars that put out
400+ bhp and pass all the tests, then I'm going to do
at least as well.




[Modified by Slalom4me, 5:55 AM 5/16/2003]

 

I kept mine took it apart, gutted it out and put it back together and back on...now I have no drag just like the idler on the eliminator kit but the factory looks...If they made a better looking eliminator kit I would have probably done that but I like the factory look better even though my car has a 408ci engine in it.

 

[QUOTEMy pump is functional even though there is no testing
where I live. I kind of like the idea of not having my
fun too much at the expense of my kid(s) & their kids.
And besides, if the mfr's can make cars that put out
400+ bhp and pass all the tests, then I'm going to do
at least as well.

[/QUOTE]

LOL! Well, as the bonfire my kids had the other night created- literally- more HC, CO, and NOx than my catless 86 will produce during the next 40 years, don't lose any sleep over destroying the environment by losing your airpump.

Manfacturers create 400 (and now 500) hp monsters within the guidelines of the EPA because they have millions to pump into R&D- I don't. When I see an air pump on a C6, I'll worry about putting mine back on.

 

[QUOTELOL! Well, as the bonfire my kids had the other night created-
literally- more HC, CO, and NOx than my catless 86 will produce during the next 40 years...,/QUOTE]

And that, in part, is why coal and wood are no longer the primary sources
of fuel for heating and cooking. Think of Great Britain in the Industrial Age.

As for the other part of it, the point is that we can have performance
AND emissions compliance. I'd like to see people aim to build their
engines (and maintain them) so they exceed the recommendations,
not just meet them. In fact, I expect to see emissions become part
of the bragging rights builders shoot for in the not-to-distant future.

Anybody here up for the challange?




[Modified by Slalom4me, 3:42 PM 5/15/2003]

 

Ladies and Gentlemen
In this corner we have . . . . . . .

:nonod:

I like that. :yesnod:

 

Come on, I did say I wanted to pass emissions. Understand where you're coming from, but in all honesty, if once up to temp, say a few minutes after startup my emissions are ok, I don't really think I contributing too much to world pollution. I intend to keep a main cat in the system.

I need to do more research into how and when the system actually works. Manufacturuers spend alot of time and effort trying to reduce cold start emissions because thats when the car pollutes the most. If the air injection is only used during that time, I really think its going.

 

My point is that you can pass emissions without the AIR pump installed, since not having it only affects emissions for the very few minutes that the engine is cold. Only CA regulations are so restrictive that you cannot pass a sniffer without the AIR.

I couldnt care less what you think about what the manufacturers can do now, because they couldnt do it when your car was made. I'm making my 440hp one day, and I wouldnt mind passing the sniffer, but i know i wont so I dont care.

 

Since we are on the dreaded air pump controvesy, if I wanted to eliminate my air pump, how do I compensate for my now too big serpentine belt? Can I buy a smaller one or what? How dow you figure out the different serpentine belt configuration now that the air pump is gone. Color me stupid, but I'm really scratching my head on that one. :confused:

 

You buy the AIR eliminator pulley advertised in the vette catalogs, or you machine your own to fit in its place. This way you still use the original belt, but still remove about 20lbs of junk. The weight savings and the cleanup of the engine area is the major advantage. HP gains are likely minimal.

 

The epa doesn't have a clue, if they can't slant info they just make it up. The cats that were supposed to save the world, well now they say cats are contributing to global warming, which by the way is another bunch of crap. There will be green grass and big trees on this earth long after we're gone. Ditch the air pump and go with a high flow cat, you know the straight thru design :lol:

 

Yep, that is the only reason I spoke up. I knew I was going to take
some flak but I thought that I'd try making a case for retention of
the pump since you seem(ed?) to be on the fence and willing to
question conventional thinking.

Probably not. I know in my case it is a good year when I get more
than 5k mi on my odometer.

The Corvette Shop Manuals have a section on emissions equipment. So
do the generic manuals by Chiltons, Motor & ect. - if you don't already
have one, you can usually find them at the library.

Well, that's a decision that is up to each individual. But as you can see
from this thread, people are quite quick to lay out $170 (MADVet.com:
Air Pump Replacement Pulley Kit. PN# 609-139 - Black. PN# 609-137
- Polished), plus shipping, to save 20-30 lb (hp equivalent is negligible)
and gain minimal-20 hp (low figure from another post here, high figure
from MADVet.com) by tossing a system that they don't understand
well. yet which plays a perceptible role in reducing pollutants on the
vehicles on which it is operational. Then there is the mambo to be
done around the inspections.

At last count, I think I'm the only one in favor of keeping the pump
- the tribe has spoken.




[Modified by Slalom4me, 8:58 AM 5/16/2003]

 

Appreciate the counter point, thats why I post here :cheers:

After some additional research I'm armed with a much better understanding of how and when the air injection system works. I'll repeat it here for those who want to know or who have an incorrect understanding.

Basically there's three modes of operation, cold, warm and diversion.

Cold Mode - air is injected into the exhaust manifolds to aid combustion of unburned gases (hydrocarbons). No air is injected into the cat at this time.

Warm Mode - air is injected into the cat at the oxidation section of the cat to provide O2 to continue the burning of hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide. At this point air is no longer supplied to the exhaust manifolds. This is the normal mode of operation.

Diversion Mode - in this mode all air injection is bypassed and air is dumped into the atmosphere. The system only uses this mode during, rich conditions, deceleration, high RPM situations and when a problem is detected.

A three way cat has two chambers to remove pollutants.

A reduction catalyst which removes nitrogen from the Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) and releases oxygen which passes to the next section the oxidation catalyst.

The oxidation catalyst uses this 02 and oxidizes the hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide in the exhaust.

So I guess the question becomes - does the cat need the extra air the air pump provides to complete the oxidation? The answer would seem to depend on the amount of oxidation required in the first place (that is how clean is the exhaust when it gets to the cat) and how well the cat itself works, because its already getting a supply of 02 from the reduction catalyst.

Looking at several of my newer cars - they do not have air injection systems. Either the exhaust is already cleaner because of better engine management, or new cats are designed to function better.

In my own case, I'm keeping the cat in the system (just bought a new Random Cat) so while maybe not an ideal situation, emissions wise, I don't think there's a problem.

I'm certainly not doing this for some magical horsepower increase, hell if all these wild claims were half right we'd all have 500HP cars. I'd really be happy to keep the stuff if it was tucked out of the way someplace but that's not the case. Since I do all my own work, I getting sick of all the clutter.

The inspection "Mamba" is my only concern at the moment, but after this little research exercise, I'm beginning to hear the music.
:party:




[Modified by 1MoorTym, 12:20 PM 5/16/2003]

 

The best thing about the "Air Pump", is that it helps you pass the smog inspections....you can find other ways to increase HP.....
tony
:eek: :eek: :D :cheers: :flag

 

I'm going to loose mine ;)

 

Onemore, it's not too bad to take off the half of the A/C condenser housing that is closest to the engine to really get great access to #8 bolts.
It's really difficult to not have some kind of a pulley in that location(L98). Doing so would require major surgery.
Belt: If you get some string, put one end on a pulley and lace it around the rest of the pulleys as belt would normally run. Measure it's end to end lenght. If it measures.......say.......oh, ......78 inches, you need a "XX6078XX. belt. See how there is a 6 in the #? That's how many ribs a belt has. See the 78? That's it's lenght in inches. So you could go to any part counter and tell the person you want a 6 rib belt that is 78 inches long. If they give you the "What year vehicle sir?" crap, ask if you can go look at them yourself.


I think a shorter belt is included in a pump eliminator kit(?)

Does anybody that has an eliminator kit tell me what the ID of the bearing on the pulley is?


[Modified by 89 Paul in Cal, 12:10 AM 5/17/2003]