Here's my situation,

I think I have a water pump leak because, well there's water on the underside of the pump dripping down onto the crank pulley and cross-member.

This appears to be causing damage to the back (smooth) side of my belt as it has damage down the middle where the water drips onto the crank pulley. I think that the water on the belt is causing the belt to slip on the tensioner or PS pulley resulting in the damage to the belt. If this is not the cause of my belt damage then I don't know what is as all the pulleys appear to turn freely.

Anyway, I assume the proper replacement will be to go with an electric, probably the heavy duty meziere. However, for various reasons, both funds and time related, it would be nice if I could put this off for a few months, like mid September. Does this sound like a horrible idea, must I repair this right away?

Now, for when I do change the pump, will the electric pump give me any trouble in actuating the tensioner pulley. replacing the belt is already a bear now and it seems like the electric pump hould get in the way of the wrench swing when compressing the tensioner.

Also, is this something I can guarantee doing in a weekend or do I need to have more time available.

Thanks for your help!

Jason

 

Nothing.... not even a snide comment about how stupid I am to even think about delaying repair.

Come on guys, give me something.

I know someone with an electric water pump can at least tell me if it makes removing the belt a pain.

Thanks, (I think I must just post at bad times)

Jason

 

I delayed replacing my water pump for several months after finding out it was leaking. Maybe I just got lucky, but I got by with no ill effects.

I am running the Meziere HD water pump, and it doesn't interfere with the serpentine belt removal. Remember the water pump is cam driven, not by the serp belt.

 

Depends on how badly it is dripping. If it's an occasional drip, then you'll probably be OK. If it's a constant drip then you need to get to it before September.

The big damage that can happen with a dripping pump is to the optispark. It sits right under the pump. A 96 has the better designed seals, but they have been known to allow coolant to get inside the mechanism. If that happens, it'll cost you another $200+ (if you supply the labor, $600+ if you farm it out) to replace it.

They're your dice, roll'em.

A HD Mez runs about $200-$220 and will take you about 2 hours to install. Just be sure to use a 30amp relay.


[Modified by John Row, 2:46 PM 5/28/2003]

 

If it is a water pump seal that is leaking, it won't get better with time..only worse. Putting it off may not cause any particularly exspensive damage, IF you are lucky that is. As stated above, gets into the opti the price will rise dramatically.

 

Thanks for your advice guys. I am currently trying to track down a HD pump to put in this weekend. It sounds like changing the pump shouldn't be too tough so there's no real benefit to putting it off.

Thanks for soothing me about the serpentine belt issue. I knew it was cam driven my concern was really with the path of the wrench when compressing the tensioner, I've already broken off my ECT sensor fighting the serpentine belt and was afraid of further reduced clearance.

Thanks,

Jason

 

I don't know if they can get you a HD Meziere by this weekend. But, I bought my Meziere from thunderracing.com

 

I just bought the Meizere HD from:
http://www.jegs.com

I shopped around and found them to be in the ball park as everyone else. I bought from them because of some of the references that I was getting from other people. Great technical and customer service.

Anyway I havn't installed it yet.... yes dear.... yes dear I will build that porch that I promised two years ago.... ahem...

Thanks for asking about the serp. I didn't consider that.

I would strongly recomend replacing the pump as soon as you can. That Opti replacment was A PITA!!! :mad However, now that I have done one the next will be a peice of cake. :D What I noticed on my car was crap being flung from the belt onto the back side of my hood which then driped onto other areas creating a mess. I couldn't figure out what was wrong untill the old pump finally gave way.

Also, I would be very interested in how you hook up the pump. I am looking at using a relay hooked up to a keyed power source. I am about as dumb as a stump when it comes to these electrical oddities. Needless to say I like to absorb as much as I can from many places.

 

I took the keyed power source from the pink/black wires going to one of the two fan relays (not sure what's on the 96) on the side of the radiator shroud. I ran a 12ga. wire from the fuse block beside the battery through a 20amp automotive fuse to the relay. I know of 2 people that had the plastic housing on the fuse supplied with the pump melt. I tossed it out.

At first I used a fan relay and harness to control the pump, but they only last 3-6 months, I've since switched to a 30amp Bose relay. The pump must pull close to 20amps on startup. It draws 10amps in normal operation.

Find a place to mount the relay where it won't be hit by the headlight when you close the hood, (don't ask :banghead: ).

Some people have replaced the power connector to the pump with a weather-pack connector, I haven't yet, but then we don't get much weather.

 

Thanks!!

I have read that the Bosch 30 amp was the way to go. It holds up well under the conditions. I havn't heard of the "bose" ?? Maybe you meant Bosch. I also heard that a weather proof conection is needed at the pump as well.

Thanks again.

 

Now this thread has gotten really interesting. I haven't done much auto electrical work and was planning on taking my time and trying to be creative and doing it right. The tips on what others have done will be invaluable.

I'm picking up a standard duty meziere tomorrow from racenet so I should be able to fix it this weekend.

Please let me know of any pitfalls to avoid in this operation.

Thanks,

Jason

 

Bose :crazy: Bosch :yesnod:

Standard Mez will be interesting. Everyone I know of went to the HD, but for no particular reason than Corvette=Heavy Duty.

I know the F-body guys use the standard, frequently.

It'll be a bit easier to install. It's a little shorter than the HD. I had to loosen the A/C accumulator to get it in place.

There may be a TECH TIP on installing the pump. If not, here's some things you'll need in addition to the wrenches and sockets. Most of the job is pretty obvious.

Water pump gaskets (absolutely necessary, and only a few $$)
hi-temp RTV,
Thread Sealer,
a 6" extension and a universal joint ( to get the bolt behind the power steering pump pulley,
one of those long flexible grabber thingys,
green scotch brite,
single edged razor blades (to remove the old gasket material from the heads, this is probably the hardest part of the job.)
3lb maul (to hit the punch to remove the old impeller or suitable heavy object).
Serpentine belt tool (not absolutely necessary, but it does make the job easier and they aren't expensive. It's basically a 30" thin steel bar with a 3/8" drive on one end, I think you need a 5/8" socket to put on the tensioner bolt.)


Note: to punch out the old impeller, protect the gasket surfaces on the pump housing and punch the shaft out from the impeller side to the back. It takes 5 or 6 good wacks.

I'm assuming you haven't worked on cars a lot so if I say something simple then ignore it.

I don't recall if you have to remove the belt, but if you do the tool is very handy. You can use a wrench with a helper pipe in a pinch.

After you get the pump off and before you start cleaning the surfaces, put a thin coating of RTV on both sides of the gaskets, put them someplace to let them dry (some will disagree with this, but it's what I do).

You'll need to get the gasket surfaces very clean and smooth otherwise they will leak. After you scrape all the old material off the pump and block, use the scotchbrite to polish the surfaces. Feel them with your fingertips until they feel like glass. You will be tempted to use a screw driver to remove some of the old stuck on material, but fight it off. You can easily gouge the surface.

Becareful when you remove the front pump plate. The seal is used on the Mez pump, don't loose it. I've heard a new one is hard to find.

The gaskets are directional. One way they stick into the water passage a little the other everything is clear. Both gaskets are identical.

When you put the bolts back into the pump, put a coating of the thread sealer on them. They go completely through into the water jacket and could leak without it.

Plan on 6-7 hours if it's your first time. 2 hours if you are experienced.

Enjoy :cheers:


[Modified by John Row, 10:19 PM 5/29/2003]


[Modified by John Row, 10:23 PM 5/29/2003]

 

Hey thanks again for the tips. I have printed it out and will be using it when I get the deck done!!!

:D

 

Thanks a lot John,

I have done a fair amount of work on cars and am pretty confident, I just want to try and avoid mid project runs to the parts store.

So as I have it the things I need to get at the parts store tonight are (I know it's repetitious but it will be nice to have a comprehensive list):

water pump gaskets
High temp. RTV
thread sealer
scotch brite and razor blades (to clean surfaces)
BFH (to knock out old impeller, prefer to substitute with hydraulic press)
high quality inline fuse holder and 20 amp fuse
bosch 30 amp relay
12 ga wire (How much, do I need any other wire?)
weather pack conenctor, not necessary but if I'm at the store anyway.

Please let me know if there's anything else, other than tools that I need.

BTW, I would have prefered the HD but I was looking at at least a week to get one and this is the most convenient weekend for me to be screwing around with this.

Thanks again!

Jason

 

Hey, if it starts dripping fairly regularly, the hot coolant drips onto the belt, and gets carried up and over the alternator pulley and slung in a neat line across the underside of your hood. This damages the hood liner. Ask me how I know this...:lol:

 

Enough to get from the battery comnpartment to the front of the engine is a minimum. I'd get 10', just in case I cut the first piece 3" too short :banghead:

One Other Thing: I used one of those neat 3M wire taps to connect to the pink/black wire on the fan relay. After everything was working, I smeared it with RTV to seal the weather out. The wires on the Bosch relay are heavier duty than the fan relay. So be sure the tap will handle both gauge wires.

Also, a couple of wire eyes to connect the pump and relay grounds to the ground screw. Just makes it neater.

If you've worked on cars before this is a piece of cake. Hardest part (mechanically) is figuring how to get a socket on the 6th pump bolt behind the PS pulley. Hint above is the 6" extension and universal.

I just found I have to replace my starter! It sticks on. Heading to the parts store. :cheers:


[Modified by John Row, 4:17 PM 5/31/2003]

 

I just came back to the computer after becoming pretty frustrated thinking about how to tap into the fan relay wires.

everything has gone fairly smoothly to this point, but this is causing me quite a conundrum. I just took off the PS pulley to get to the short bolt so that wasn't a problem. I always knew the wiring would be the thing to cause me problems.

Now I just have to figure out how to get to the parts store to get a wire tap.

Jason

 

Well, it's four thirty in the morning and I'm finally cleaned up and going to bed.

I never did get it to work right. I currently have the water pump running through a manual switch.

Everything was great except for the electrical which has already nearly killed me and isn't even working right yet.

I tapped into the low current wires from a relay on the left side of the radiator shroud that was hot under ignition but cold when key off or in acc. I hooked these wires up to the 85 and 86 posts on the relay (cheap relay to get me by until I can get a good one ordered and delivered) . I then ran a hot wire from the positive post on the fuseblock in front of the battery, through an inline fuse, and to the 30 terminal on the relay. I then ran from the 87 terminal on the relay to the blue wire on the pump. I then grounded the black wire from the pump to the grounding screw just behind the left end of the radiator. This did not work.

Troubleshooting the relay indicated that the incoming low current leads were getting power with the key in the "on" position, but the high current output of the relay never got any power. I thought, OK bad relay, lets try the extra I got and see if it works. It had the same symptoms.

So I gave up and wired up a switch that runs next to the door hinge and inside the car. This works great except that it's not automiatic and looks like crap and is just generally wrong.

I also now have an intermittant flashing SYS warning on the digital gauge, hopefully I just drained the battery a little too much, the digital voltage gauge only reads 13.9 now, when running, as opposed to 14.2 before this adventure, and it will either go away or be fixed by a battery replacement. I forgot to check the voltage when the motor was off but will check that in the morning to see if I need a new battery.

Please help me figure out how to wire this correctly. If anyone, like John, could please give me a detailed description of what relay they used and where one can get such a relay and exactly how it is wired up, ie. pink wire from relay XXXXX to pin number XX on water pump relay etc. I would be very appreciative. Also, where can I get these 3m taps ad how do they work? Also any insight into the SYS warning would be nice.

Thanks again for your past and future help.

Jason

I'm going to sleep now.

 

well I drove the car today and no SYS warning so I guess the battery was just drained from all the electrical troubleshooting and purging the cooling system.

It looks like some people are using the Fuel pump relay from summit/jegs that is $25. I guess I could order one of these but I would like confirmation of my wiring before I ruin a $25 relay rather than a $6 one.

Also, does anyone know of a good source of auto electrical components like terminals, taps, etc.? I'm looking for an electrical suopply house kind of place that I could just order everything I could possibly need in the foreseeable future so I can do any electrical jobs right from the beginning as opposed to getting by with whatever the store had and I remembered to buy.

Thanks again!

Jason

 

I don't kmow if I followed closely enough, but...
Is the primary relay circuit (low side) grounded? Even having power at the terminal, won't cause the relay to close, if the primary circuit isn't complete. Good luck, and...

RACE ON!!!
1984 Crossfire
Member NHRA