head comparisons:
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 1
From: Cincinnati Oh
head comparisons:
I was reading (and admiring) the post on the proline heads... and I wanted to compare them to my trickflow 23* CNC'd heads. I know the prolines were mildly polished? and the TFs are out-of-the box... but what makes a cyl head "better?"
Trickflow versus proline:
.100 not listed
.200 138.5/105.2 versus 137/117 difference: +1.5/-11.8
.300 197.7/145.5 versus 187/153 difference: +10.7/-8.0
.400 237.1/170.7 versus 228/187 difference: +9.1/-16.3
.500 256.8/186.3 versus 260/202 difference: -3.2/-15.7
"difference" meaning, how do the trickflows compare to the prolines:
the worked-over prolines have a distinct advantage on the exhaust side (the port work?) and start to shine up high, but if anything the trickflows have a mild advantage on the intake... Since I think the prolines are a better head, what "makes" them better?
How does the Intake/Exhaust comparisons relate to torque (since the TFs are more lopsided, should they not have a higher exhaust velocity and more toque, or is it just wasted power)? For my setup, I won't see above .5" lift in a 383ci. I don't know to what use the prolines will be put to.
:lurk:
[Modified by Ramanstud, 11:26 PM 6/24/2003]
Trickflow versus proline:
.100 not listed
.200 138.5/105.2 versus 137/117 difference: +1.5/-11.8
.300 197.7/145.5 versus 187/153 difference: +10.7/-8.0
.400 237.1/170.7 versus 228/187 difference: +9.1/-16.3
.500 256.8/186.3 versus 260/202 difference: -3.2/-15.7
"difference" meaning, how do the trickflows compare to the prolines:
the worked-over prolines have a distinct advantage on the exhaust side (the port work?) and start to shine up high, but if anything the trickflows have a mild advantage on the intake... Since I think the prolines are a better head, what "makes" them better?
How does the Intake/Exhaust comparisons relate to torque (since the TFs are more lopsided, should they not have a higher exhaust velocity and more toque, or is it just wasted power)? For my setup, I won't see above .5" lift in a 383ci. I don't know to what use the prolines will be put to.
:lurk:
[Modified by Ramanstud, 11:26 PM 6/24/2003]
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 13,356
Likes: 0
From: tucson AZ
St. Jude Donor '04 & '05
Re: head comparisons: (Ramanstud)
Am I missing something....I thought you made the switch from the crossfire to an LT1.....So how come after installing everything....you've still got head question's....are the heads aluminum???????
Sorry....just wanted to know.....as I also have an '84 vette....and quite interested in what you have accomplished....up to now????? Witch block are you using??????
Thanks.....(no FLAMEING)....
tony
and you know who I am.....
:cheers:
After all you have done so much work on your '84......
:cool: :cheers: :cool:
[Modified by oldace84, 8:42 PM 6/24/2003]
[Modified by oldace84, 8:43 PM 6/24/2003]
Sorry....just wanted to know.....as I also have an '84 vette....and quite interested in what you have accomplished....up to now????? Witch block are you using??????
Thanks.....(no FLAMEING)....
tony
and you know who I am.....
:cheers:
After all you have done so much work on your '84......
:cool: :cheers: :cool:
[Modified by oldace84, 8:42 PM 6/24/2003]
[Modified by oldace84, 8:43 PM 6/24/2003]
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 1
From: Cincinnati Oh
Re: head comparisons: (oldace84)
Tony,
You ARE missing something: my sig! :jester I did the tuned port conversion and yes I already have the trickflows on (since December). Frankly I'm very happy with them and all the work I've accomplished (the car runs great!)- but I still have a lot to learn. This post just happens to be one of those "in retrospect..." curiosities.
I picked the trickflows because of their competitive #s and the $1200 assembled and to my door pricetag (that and I wanted to be a little different- I was shopping while the forum was bogged down with AFR related threads). Now I just want to see if I made a good decision or not. :D
And once I pass my competencies in August... I'll see about making a DIY conversion page for the crossfire guys out there.
:cheers:
You ARE missing something: my sig! :jester I did the tuned port conversion and yes I already have the trickflows on (since December). Frankly I'm very happy with them and all the work I've accomplished (the car runs great!)- but I still have a lot to learn. This post just happens to be one of those "in retrospect..." curiosities.
I picked the trickflows because of their competitive #s and the $1200 assembled and to my door pricetag (that and I wanted to be a little different- I was shopping while the forum was bogged down with AFR related threads). Now I just want to see if I made a good decision or not. :D
And once I pass my competencies in August... I'll see about making a DIY conversion page for the crossfire guys out there.
:cheers:
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 6,341
Likes: 1
From: Shelton CT
Re: head comparisons: (Ramanstud)
IF I were to get a set of heads other than what I am already getting (Set of ZZ4 d-ports, that I'll have a stage 2 porting done on) I would get the Trickflows aswell.. Heard nuttin but good things about them..Same as the AFR's just they are cheaper..
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas NV
Re: head comparisons: (Ramanstud)
Do you have knocking issue with your trickflow heads? I have trickflow on my 88 and have knocks at near WOT (between 2500 to 3000 rpm). I am using 91 Octane gas and like to know how to fix this issue with the least amount of work and money :rolleyes:
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 1
From: Cincinnati Oh
Re: head comparisons: (VQT88Vette)
Do you have knocking issue with your trickflow heads? I have trickflow on my 88 and have knocks at near WOT (between 2500 to 3000 rpm). I am using 91 Octane gas and like to know how to fix this issue with the least amount of work and money :rolleyes:
My guess would be to treat it like knock in any other situation... spark advance, fuel delivery, etc... though I noticed (with my cam) the car likes a little more timing. I kept it at 6 - 7 degrees, but probably could have gotten away with 8 degrees advanced.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 669
Likes: 0
From: memphis tn
Re: head comparisons: (Ramanstud)
from what i have heard, trick flows are of the fast burn design . they tend to like less timing to make max power. i have seen dyno charts with them making max power at 28* total advance. i would test them to be sure but i believe you will find no more than 34* total will be in order.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas NV
Re: head comparisons: (Ramanstud)
I sure don't, but transmission worries have kept me from WOT... :rolleyes:
My guess would be to treat it like knock in any other situation... spark advance, fuel delivery, etc... though I noticed (with my cam) the car likes a little more timing. I kept it at 6 - 7 degrees, but probably could have gotten away with 8 degrees advanced.
My guess would be to treat it like knock in any other situation... spark advance, fuel delivery, etc... though I noticed (with my cam) the car likes a little more timing. I kept it at 6 - 7 degrees, but probably could have gotten away with 8 degrees advanced.
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Pro
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 682
Likes: 23
From: loxahatchee fla
Re: head comparisons: (Ramanstud)
Ramanstud
things to keep in mind
(1)the exhaust flow numbers are not quite "AS CRITICAL" simply because the EXHAUST is phyisically forced out the exhaust port by a piston forcing the gases out of the cylinder as opposed to the intake which relies on outside air pressure and ram tuning.
(2) the TRICKFLOWS already out flow the pro-lines in the critical .300-.500 lift range and with further port work would further open the spread in flow numbers
(3)you already own the TRICKFLOWS, theres no real advantage to spending more money, especially for a 3%-7% increase in flow only above .500 lift
IM useing the TW trickflows ( YES IM AWARE,ITS NOT THE SAME HEAD) (yes mine are ported and flow better)
HERES WHAT CHEVY HIGH PERFORMANCE SAID
In an attempt to be different for the better, this TSF twisted Wedge head changed the valve angles from 23 degrees to 13 degrees. The really big difference here is what the exhaust side of this head is capable of. Only one other head (AFR 210) was even close on the exhaust side. The E/I was also a very respectable 77%. This head really can wake up your engine.
[Modified by grumpyvette, 7:22 PM 6/25/2003]
things to keep in mind
(1)the exhaust flow numbers are not quite "AS CRITICAL" simply because the EXHAUST is phyisically forced out the exhaust port by a piston forcing the gases out of the cylinder as opposed to the intake which relies on outside air pressure and ram tuning.
(2) the TRICKFLOWS already out flow the pro-lines in the critical .300-.500 lift range and with further port work would further open the spread in flow numbers
(3)you already own the TRICKFLOWS, theres no real advantage to spending more money, especially for a 3%-7% increase in flow only above .500 lift
IM useing the TW trickflows ( YES IM AWARE,ITS NOT THE SAME HEAD) (yes mine are ported and flow better)
HERES WHAT CHEVY HIGH PERFORMANCE SAID
In an attempt to be different for the better, this TSF twisted Wedge head changed the valve angles from 23 degrees to 13 degrees. The really big difference here is what the exhaust side of this head is capable of. Only one other head (AFR 210) was even close on the exhaust side. The E/I was also a very respectable 77%. This head really can wake up your engine.
[Modified by grumpyvette, 7:22 PM 6/25/2003]
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 1
From: Cincinnati Oh
Re: head comparisons: (grumpyvette)
(3)you already own the TRICKFLOWS, theres no real advantage to spending more money, especially for a 3%-7% increase in flow only above .500 lift
Thanks again,
:cheers: