Damn VATS, what to fix?
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 62,066
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From: Athens AL
C7 of the Year - Unmodified Finalist 2021
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Damn VATS, what to fix?
Every once in a while it gets me, I dont know if i'm tripping the alarm somehow. Last night i unlocked the doors with the key, got in and shut the door. Inserted the key and then started filling out a bank form, went to crank and nothing. Dash lit up and everything, so its the VATS.
So i give it about 10min to reset itself, then retry, nothing.
Later on, i went back out to try once more, and heard a clicking-electrical sound just underneath the dash above the hush panel, i'm guessing the VATS module or something has some bad connections? What should I look for to fix this, I do NOT want to bypass the VATS system.
So i give it about 10min to reset itself, then retry, nothing.
Later on, i went back out to try once more, and heard a clicking-electrical sound just underneath the dash above the hush panel, i'm guessing the VATS module or something has some bad connections? What should I look for to fix this, I do NOT want to bypass the VATS system.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: Leesburg in
Re: Damn VATS, what to fix? (vader86)
I shelled out over $300 for a new VATS, installed.
If you disconnect the battery, it should reset.
Do you have another key, try it.
And, don't let your key rub around in your pocket with another VATS key.
If you disconnect the battery, it should reset.
Do you have another key, try it.
And, don't let your key rub around in your pocket with another VATS key.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 16
From: Phoenix AZ
Re: Damn VATS, what to fix? (eddieL98)
Apparently someone didn't read the last sentence of your post. You are wise not to bypass the system, it is a pretty good anti-theft system for a car with one of the most vulnerable column locks ever made. Besides, all you "bypass" is the ignition cyliner, the VATS doesn't "go away" when you install the bypass module.
Go to a locksmith shop that stocks VATS keys and compare your key to a new one. If the contacts on your key appear to be worn down compared to the new key, replacing the key will probably get you by for a while. After that you'll have to replace the cylinder, about $80 from GM.
If you do replace the whole cylinder, you do not need to match codes to your old one. The VATS module doesn't differentiate between key electrical resistances, that is done at the cylinder itself. (I don't remember why this is, logic tells me that they would only need to sell a bypass module with one resistance instead of fifteen) That's how I remember it though, its been aver a year since I replaced mine. :)
[Modified by vetracer, 4:20 PM 7/23/2003]
Go to a locksmith shop that stocks VATS keys and compare your key to a new one. If the contacts on your key appear to be worn down compared to the new key, replacing the key will probably get you by for a while. After that you'll have to replace the cylinder, about $80 from GM.
If you do replace the whole cylinder, you do not need to match codes to your old one. The VATS module doesn't differentiate between key electrical resistances, that is done at the cylinder itself. (I don't remember why this is, logic tells me that they would only need to sell a bypass module with one resistance instead of fifteen) That's how I remember it though, its been aver a year since I replaced mine. :)
[Modified by vetracer, 4:20 PM 7/23/2003]
Heel & Toe
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 20
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From: FL
Re: Damn VATS, what to fix? (vetracer)
The VATS is connected to the computer thru a thin two-wire connector that runs down thru the steering column - the pickups inside the lock cylinder simply are used to complete a circuit thru the resistor in the key. The resistance value is then measured at the computer, where the 'Start/NoStart' decision is made. There's no processing done in the lock cylinder - if it did work this way, I'd have de-bugged my own VATS problem by just replacing the cylinder - instead I had to essentially 'rebuild' a key (Because I lost mine).
If you replaced the cylinder, you wouldn't have to match it to anything - but you would have use a key with the same resistance value as the original. The teeth of the new key could be totally different (matching the new cylinder), but the resistance would have to stay the same.
[Modified by TripleBlack89, 8:31 PM 7/23/2003]
If you replaced the cylinder, you wouldn't have to match it to anything - but you would have use a key with the same resistance value as the original. The teeth of the new key could be totally different (matching the new cylinder), but the resistance would have to stay the same.
[Modified by TripleBlack89, 8:31 PM 7/23/2003]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,174
Likes: 6
From: NW MN
Re: Damn VATS, what to fix? (vader86)
Vader, sounds like you have the same problem as I do. My contacts in the lock cylinder are worn out. I can use a new key and using a meter I can watch the key resistance go intermittant by just slightly moving the key around. Never knowing if it was going to start sucked so I made my own temporary bypass until I can replace the cylinder. TripleBlack has it right on the cylinder replacement procedure.
[Modified by 86Pacecar, 8:58 PM 7/23/2003]
[Modified by 86Pacecar, 8:58 PM 7/23/2003]
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Athens AL
C7 of the Year - Unmodified Finalist 2021
C4 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Re: Damn VATS, what to fix? (86Pacecar)
It is definitely not a problem with the key, i even used the spare key (almost new) to try it, and got nothing.
Its something on the inside.
Its something on the inside.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Re: Damn VATS, what to fix? (vader86)
If you can hear the VATS start enable relay click behind the center of the dash when you reach the crank position, then VATS is not your problem. When it won't crank, jump the clutch switch and try a crank (gear selector switch if auto). Unplug the clutch switch and jump 12v to the purple wire on the switch socket (jump 12v to the purple wire on the gear selector sw if auto). This goes to the starter solenoid and the starter should crank. To prove it is or isn't the contacts in the lock cylinder, jump a fixed resistor the same value as your pellet across the unplugged 2 pin connector to your VATS module. These wires on my 87 come out the steering column under the carpet and go to the passenger side (VATS module).
These tests will prove that it is the clutch sw, starter, or the lock cylinder contacts, or the VATS module.
[Modified by jfb, 9:32 PM 7/23/2003]
[Modified by jfb, 9:33 PM 7/23/2003]
These tests will prove that it is the clutch sw, starter, or the lock cylinder contacts, or the VATS module.
[Modified by jfb, 9:32 PM 7/23/2003]
[Modified by jfb, 9:33 PM 7/23/2003]
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Heel & Toe
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: FL
Re: Damn VATS, what to fix? (vader86)
The clicking noise seems kind of strange to me - when I was doing my VATS project, I was trying to start the car with a non-relay key, using a resistor that was clipped in-line to the VATS wiring harness.
I started with 392 ohms, key-value #1. I put in the non-relay key, turned the switch to 'on' - and the usual pre-start things happened: Radio came on, fans started, etc. But when I turned the key to start - nothing happened... literally NOTHING. No click, no beep, no 'alarm' - just nothing.
I don't want to ask a silly question, but have you gone over the obvious things - are the battery cables tight and is the battery charged?
I started with 392 ohms, key-value #1. I put in the non-relay key, turned the switch to 'on' - and the usual pre-start things happened: Radio came on, fans started, etc. But when I turned the key to start - nothing happened... literally NOTHING. No click, no beep, no 'alarm' - just nothing.
I don't want to ask a silly question, but have you gone over the obvious things - are the battery cables tight and is the battery charged?
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 120
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From: Leesburg in
Re: Damn VATS, what to fix? (TripleBlack89)
This may coincidental, but a week after replacing my VATS system, the same thing happened. Turned my new key, and nothing. Disconnected battery. Waited a minute or two. Reconnected. Then drove her straight back to the shop. :mad
This time, they replaced the alternator. I've had no problems since. (fingers crossed!)
This time, they replaced the alternator. I've had no problems since. (fingers crossed!)
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,174
Likes: 6
From: NW MN
Re: Damn VATS, what to fix? (TripleBlack89)
The clicking noise seems kind of strange to me - when I was doing my VATS project, I was trying to start the car with a non-relay key, using a resistor that was clipped in-line to the VATS wiring harness.
I started with 392 ohms, key-value #1. I put in the non-relay key, turned the switch to 'on' - and the usual pre-start things happened: Radio came on, fans started, etc. But when I turned the key to start - nothing happened... literally NOTHING. No click, no beep, no 'alarm' - just nothing.
I don't want to ask a silly question, but have you gone over the obvious things - are the battery cables tight and is the battery charged?
I started with 392 ohms, key-value #1. I put in the non-relay key, turned the switch to 'on' - and the usual pre-start things happened: Radio came on, fans started, etc. But when I turned the key to start - nothing happened... literally NOTHING. No click, no beep, no 'alarm' - just nothing.
I don't want to ask a silly question, but have you gone over the obvious things - are the battery cables tight and is the battery charged?
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 62,066
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From: Athens AL
C7 of the Year - Unmodified Finalist 2021
C4 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Re: Damn VATS, what to fix? (BioRxOkc@aol.com)
Battery is new, cables are tight
Starter suffers from some heat soak on the hottest days, but that isnt the problem.
Starter suffers from some heat soak on the hottest days, but that isnt the problem.
Heel & Toe
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: FL
Re: Damn VATS, what to fix? (86Pacecar)
Nah - that's not how it went at all with my car. When I was doing the testing, I had the VATS disconnected under the dash and had the resistor clipped into the circuit using test-leads. After I figured out which value started the car, then I put everything back togetgher and made a 'Test Key' by insulating the key with tape and fitting the resistor thru the key-ring hole, then gently bending the resistor wires out to make bumps to contact the VATS pickup.
What I was really trying to mention was this: On the times the car did NOT start, I didn't hear any 'Clicking' - it made no noise at all.
Yes, when I got to the right one, it made the sweet music of Corvette Power! :cool:
I wonder what's making Vader's clicking.
What I was really trying to mention was this: On the times the car did NOT start, I didn't hear any 'Clicking' - it made no noise at all.
Yes, when I got to the right one, it made the sweet music of Corvette Power! :cool:
I wonder what's making Vader's clicking.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,722
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From: Charlotte NC
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Re: Damn VATS, what to fix? (TripleBlack89)
Just to add another element to the mix.
I could sometimes hear a click that I thought was a relay. Turns out myu problem is one that is common with vats installed in columns with a tilt or extension function.
The leads on the bad of my lock were shorting out against the inside of the column, setting off the VATS lockout. Replaced the lock (comes with the pigtail) and the problem vanished.
I could sometimes hear a click that I thought was a relay. Turns out myu problem is one that is common with vats installed in columns with a tilt or extension function.
The leads on the bad of my lock were shorting out against the inside of the column, setting off the VATS lockout. Replaced the lock (comes with the pigtail) and the problem vanished.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,292
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From: Beavercreek OR
Re: Damn VATS, what to fix? (vader86)
Vader,
It seems to me that you know more about these cars than most and considering your number of posts, you must have read 10 times that, so I hesitate to comment on something I'm sure you already know, but I haven't seen you say anything about repalcing the ignition cylinder :confused:
It seems to me that you know more about these cars than most and considering your number of posts, you must have read 10 times that, so I hesitate to comment on something I'm sure you already know, but I haven't seen you say anything about repalcing the ignition cylinder :confused:
Heel & Toe
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: FL
Re: Damn VATS, what to fix? (Preacher)
Just to add another element to the mix.
I could sometimes hear a click that I thought was a relay. Turns out myu problem is one that is common with vats installed in columns with a tilt or extension function.
The leads on the bad of my lock were shorting out against the inside of the column, setting off the VATS lockout. Replaced the lock (comes with the pigtail) and the problem vanished.
I could sometimes hear a click that I thought was a relay. Turns out myu problem is one that is common with vats installed in columns with a tilt or extension function.
The leads on the bad of my lock were shorting out against the inside of the column, setting off the VATS lockout. Replaced the lock (comes with the pigtail) and the problem vanished.
Everything works perfectly fine - right now - but I'm still a little worried that I might have damaged the wire, so now I've got *that* to look forward to ! !
None of this is helping Vader's problem, but it's all interesting.