Ralph,

I ran a new one, point at hand what I was trying to explain before. mine actually corroided off to the point it built up enough heat while pulling into mcdonalds the one day to almost cause a fire! I yanked it out of the harness in time to keep the other wires from being melted by the heat. That was on the stock configured motor.

After than I just ran a hot wire as you describe from the alternator to the battery + teminal. BE SURE TO USE a fusable link. Forget what amperage I went with, but I had it without one of them before, being the electrical idiot I am. And the one alternator I had from AZ shorted to the casing inside and nearly toasted the car this past spring. :eek: Again and worse this time from the first heating of the wire. this baby melted all the wiring's plastic coating instantly. Again I grabbed it, getting burned and yanked it to break the connection. Not a fun event. Fortunately I was able to break the connection and stop the heat before everything burt. Damage was minimal.

Replaced the wiring with another cable, but this time it has a fusable link in it.

I would do both that and the - ground wire. Bet your OK then with the alternator you have now.

My + wire looked like it corroided from the inside out, and only reason it became apparent was the heat that built up from the resistance melted away the plastic exposing the faulty wiring. Thinking back, wonder why the fuse never went on the original wiring????

Sorry I forgot to mention that episode before when suggesting things. :rolleyes: :smash: :thumbs:

 

Sorry, but another question.

How the heck does the big red wire route from the alternator to the battery? it seems to run under the engine, then up behind the distributor somewhere. I had my dress clothes on this morning and couldn't follow it further. The book shows it going to a junction box, but i dont see any????

 

Ralph on mine, its the junction box right behind the battery. Not sure where your is at. What you can do if you want to run another (new) wire, is just run it directly along the wheel well, to the + on the battery. Then just tape off the orginal, or leave it on there too and have two. But if its getting bad like mine, then it might cause a problem, although I think the current would just flow the path of least resistance and take the new wire route, but I'm no electrical guru.

I have mine just right to the battery's + and since the fuseable link was installed, not a single problem with anything.

its possible that you might have damaged the + wire when have had your plenum on and off so many times. I was surprised at how "brittle" mine had become from the heat. My + ran in the same housing as did the injector wiring.

I'll look to see if I can find any pictures.

:cheers: :cheers:


[Modified by ski_dwn_it, 2:07 PM 8/4/2003]

 

Ralph...Here is all I could find...The Red one is the hot wire for the walbro FP and the darker one is the one I have running from the alternator to the + teminal. I will keep looking for a better picture:









Probably not much help, but non the less there they are. I think the fusable line I used was 14 gage or 12 gage, can't recall.

Don't have any shots of the wablo new ground wire from the - terminal to the chassis either :( Sorry.

Here is a link their website also that has some information on the ground strap....You can use the location they have designated on their site also. That is where I ran mine to. :cheers: Looks like they used 8 gage wire. :cheers:
http://www.racetronix.com/Racetronix-C44-FPK.html


[Modified by ski_dwn_it, 2:23 PM 8/4/2003]


[Modified by ski_dwn_it, 2:23 PM 8/4/2003]

 

I got sick of changing alternators every 3 months too. I bought a CS144, and ran new wires like Jesse did. No problems for the last 6 months. I will never look back, a good alternator and an Optima Red Top have my life much easier this year!

3 things kill alternators:

1. Heat - make sure your cooling fins turn the right way and are not damaged
2. A bad battery
3. Bad wiring, a poor ground can fry your alt as well as the hot lead.

If you fix all of these things, a rebuilt 105 from AZ should last a year or so on a stock car, but on a car with mods like electric water pumps, fans, fuel pumps, underdrive pulleys and especially headers, it would last a few months.

Headers will destroy them with all the heat.

 

PS. The fuse holder is meant to mount on the left-side alternator bracket bolt. It's not a good idea to leave it floating there... http://www.racetronix.com/images/C4/..._Hookup-01.jpg

We use 8 ga. wire for the ground strap.

 

Thanks for the input guys. I was thinking a 140 amp alternator was a bit radical at first and the guy at the shop looked at me like i had two heads when i suggested it, but you've convinced me it's the way to go. I tried to run the test which bypasses the regulator last night, but the alternator i have is different than the one shown in the repair manual. I DID notice that the alternator gets very hot very quickly. After a short run, it was fairly hot already and then after a drive around the block, it was super hot. I've got one of those heat guns and the alternator was showing 192 deg......the engine wasn't even that hot. I know its near the headers, but i think its heating up on its own. Right after i started it, it was putting out 14.2 volts, but after about 10 min it was down to 13.5 and after running all the accessories for a little while it was down to 12.0 and only climbed back to 13.0 when i turned everything off. Scorp, those headlights we put in draw a ton. They actually pull the voltage down .6-.7 volts. Bigger draw than the fan or water pump. I guess i've just added enough new stuff to put the stock alternator over the top

now a couple of questions: How did you guys connect the heavy guage wire to the battery? I assume you soldered it into the main cable somehow. Then did you just tape it up? Racetronix, where did you run the 8 guage gnd to? Same spot on the frame? What size is that fusible link? Jesse/Racetronix, I notice you have a second wore coming off the main post of the alternator....where does it go (i dont have one)? And lastly who makes the best unit? Tuff Stuff, Powermaster, Delco??? Will probably order it today unless i can find one locally.

[Modified by ralph, 6:54 AM 8/5/2003]


[Modified by ralph, 7:04 AM 8/5/2003]

 

Ralph...

The extra red wire is the "hot" wire to our fuel pump. As I said before, they offer this kit to ensure that you get good power to the FP. Old/corroided wiring builds up resistance and causes heat.

Racetronixs supplied new battery terminal connector. I probably have an extra one that I did not use, if you want it. That will allow you to secure your exsiting - ground wire and also the new 8gage ground wire. For what its worth, I would contact them, and just get the hot wire harness from them for your FP too. You will get all the connectors, the ground etc for probably about $20. Racetronixs, can you sell him just the wiring kit? The hot wire should work with your FP also as it plugs right into the existing wiring. Correct me if I'm wrong but they provide this new wiring because its known that wiring in our 10+ year old cars deteriorates and causes voltage drops. So they just bypass all the old wiring with this new stuff it took about 10 minutes to run the wiring. I would highly suggest you get it. That would solve your ground problem, and give a little added safety on the fuel system.

I would do all that before spending the extra cash on the alternator. As much of the heat might be generated because your wiring is not up to snuff.

I hate to harp on it also, but the + wire should be rerun also with a decent heavy gage wire 10-12 gage, with a fusable link in line with it. I put a 14 gage fusable link in I believe with 12 gage wire. That way the weakest link is the 14gage. You want to keep the fusable link one size or so under the main cable, or again you will create a bottle neck and heat again will be generated.

I would use the same as I did, 12 gage to 14 fusable link.

Now with doing the above, you have ensured that the power your making at the alternator has a clean and clear shot at getting back to the battery. If you still have charging problems then yes your alternator is just too small. But I think you will find your OK with the new wiring.

For a quick test before you get the racetronixs harness, you can just get a decent heavy gage wire, and yes solder it onto the - wire and to the chassis.

Well hope you get it!


PS racetronics, the fuse block you mentioned is zip tied to the wheel well. I plan on moving it to the proper location, but at the time did not want to undo my bracket. It held very tight there and can't move :cheers:

 

Jesse, Powermaster recommends a 6 guage wire for a 140 amp Alt with a 4 to 7 foot run :crazy: That's a damn big wire and almost as big as the main battery cable. I may try that today if i can figure out how to connect it to the main cable without cutting anything up. It's getting pretty tight over there with all the relays for the pump and fan overides plus the new BIG battery. I don't think i can fit much more stuff in this car in general :lol:

And I didn't even start with the oversized fuel pumps yet......maybe i should get a 280 amp alternator......then i can go with the noen lights AND one of those stereos you hear about 20 min before i get there....make it louder than your exhaust will be and get thrown out of etown for too much bass :lolg: Of course, i'd probably need another 30 hp to turn the damn thing....so i'd need to get a bigger engine, which needs more power and fuel etc. Maybe i should just buy an 18 wheeler.....it never ends does it.




[Modified by ralph, 8:50 AM 8/5/2003]

 

Been lurking on this one to figure out which alt. # to buy. Something odd though...my stock 105 amp alt in my '90 died in the pit lane at Mid-Ohio about five years ago. I ran out to one of the big auto parts stores not too far from the track and got a rebuild with a "lifetime" warranty. Knowing that this stock unit is legendary for failure, I have been keeping an eye on all of the alternator related threads sine The Forum started. Interestingly, I have been waiting for it to die since. It's still going after really hot, high RPM, heat soaking conditons. I can't figure out why! Guess I shouldn't look the gift horse....

ski, I have the Racetronix fuel pump and wiring set up on mine also. First class plug n' play. As you, I also installed the heavier ground wire AND their brass battery bolts. I think that it may have something to do with the alternator's recent longevity, but that doesn't explain the first four years of it's survival. Question to those that use the 140 amp unit: does it have the correct mounting positions (6 o'clock, I believe) and what if anything to you have to modify or grind to get it to fit?

 

H, according to powermaster's website their 140 amp alts are a direct bolt on unless otherwise noted, so i guess it depends on the application. I'm waiting for them to call me back. My nehpew used to be into the highend stereo stuff, so he's got some 4 guage wire and terminal ends laying around....i may try to install that tonight an see if it helps any, but think i've just added enough stuff to warrant a bigger alternator. According to the Tuff Stuff site, the 89 and later models had 120 amp units, so maybe GM realized they needed a bigger unit too.

 

Ralph,

I find the recommondation on the 6 gage wire a big rediculous, when the stock wire, which as you said snakes all over the place (long) was probably only 12 gage.

Hell 6 gage wire is HUGE! That alone would probably nulify with additional weight your gains you would see from the electric H2o pump. :jester

Good luck with the testing :cheers:

 

The part # escapes me but I have a 124 amp unit that if I remmeber correctly comes off of a GM truck. I can look it up on Wednesday when I get back from FLA if anyone emails me.

BTW, I have a 4x75 watt & 1X100 amps and it starts at 14.0 and never drops below 13.4


[Modified by ld85, 10:38 AM 8/5/2003]

 

Spoke to Powermaster......They say no fusable link required if i use the 4 guage wire. They said the 85 had two alternators: one that was 108 and one that was 120....haven't checked my part #s yet. They've got a chrome 140 amp unit for $215. I'm leaning in that direction unless i can get the 120 much cheaper. Will hit the stereo supply at lunch time and see if i can get some big @ss battery terminals.

 

No, the riduculous thing is that GM would use such a tiny wire for > 100amps. I mean you can arc weld with that kind of current. I would recommend 8ga minimum, and 6ga if you're going to run the bigger alt and pull more current (like for a big stereo or something.) I use 6ga wire with a 150amp circuit breaker on mine.

Unless you've added the big stereo or several intercooler fans or something, a 105 amp alternator is more than enough. The problem is that little CS-130 is just working really hard and getting really hot putting out that kind of current. I'd suggest either the "Iceberg" alternator or kit; or even better, upgrading to the larger CS-144 alternator. Someone posted in the past about how to adapt it to fit.

 

interestingly enough the guy at Powermaster told me they made a 100 and a 120 amp alt in 85. On my Alt is stamped 120Amp, but the part number doesn';t match what powermaster gave me. I could swear that the guy that checked the alternator said it was putting out around 100 amps. Is it possible this is a rebuild with 100 amp guts in it? I'm going to beef up the wiring before i do anything else. if that doesn't do it, i;'ll have it tested one more time with my new knowledge....and if it aint putt'n out 120.....i'll buy the 140 from Powermaster.

 

I bet you find that the wiring solves the problem. At least I hope it does, that would defiantely be the cheapest way!

Good luck! :cheers:

 

George, is the CS144 the ZR1 unit that needs just a little coaxing (grinding) to fit? Agree that the amperage of the stock CS130 (105) is enough, it's been noted that it's the small rectifier that gets fried. Some of the rebuilds apparently use a plastic fan as well. Which, I guess depending on the material COULD be better. I don't know if the steel stamped fan acting as a heat sink would be better or worse. Also, I suppose that there is a weight differential in the rotating mass that might be easier on the alt bearings. Anyway, I remain very suprised that my $59.95 rebuild has lasted as long as it has, and keeps on going. I want to get a backup so that when, (not if) it goes, I'll have one in the wings.

 

what did you find Ralph? :confused: :lurk:

 

The ZR1 alt was 120A, probably a CS144; it's the heavy-duty upgrade used for many years on larger GM vehicles. The standard CS130 case is just awfully small to deal with the heat generated when producing heavy current; plus of course it's hard to get rid of heat when sitting above the headers. So the rectifier and bearings die.

The CS144 is a larger case size but can be coaxed to fit on the vette:
http://www.alternatorparts.com/CS-144_Special_offer.htm

An easier option is the CS130 Iceberg alternators avail in 105, 140, 170 amps; they have a finned heatsink built in for the rectifier, plus larger bearings:
http://www.alternatorparts.com/iceberg.htm