stumped by my '87
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
Re: stumped by my '87 (screamingeagle)
I just tried disconnecting The MAF sensor and the intake tube, with interesting results. Besides needing a jump, when we tried to crank it over still got the same results, no start, but did have about a 3 inch fire ball come out of the intake :eek: . Thus my confusioon deepens and i'm begining to despair :sad: I'm also running out of ideas :banghead: I'm supposed to be leaving for the philippines in 2 1/2 weeks and would really like to have this resolved before then :crazy:
you might have stripped the gear out of the distributor drive!
[Modified by bogus, 3:58 PM 9/12/2003]
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 33
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From: Oak Grove Ky
Re: stumped by my '87 (bogus)
If someone had been recording I might have set the world record for high jump when it spit the fire at me :lolg: But as far as I can tell there's only one way to put the cap on because of the connection for the tach, ground and battery plugs in the top of the rotor. But maybe I am just the biggest bone head in the world and put the dumb thing together wrong. I'll check it again for arguements sake and get back with you.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 33
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From: Oak Grove Ky
Re: stumped by my '87 (bogus)
I don't think the distributor drive gear is stripped, and to be sure the cap is on the correct way, and all the plugs are in the correct position. I guess the only thing left for me to do is have it towed :sad: to a real mechanic and have it looked at by a professional. Because everything I know and all the collective thought i've recieved here hasn't come up with anything. I guess when they're broke they're REALLY, REALLY broke. I'm just tired of fighting with it thanks again guys.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
Re: stumped by my '87 (screamingeagle)
You still didnt say how this problem started.Just that it was running crappy.
When the guys say the distributor is in backward,they dont mean the cap is on backward.They mean, the crankshaft is on a exhaust stroke when the rotor is pointed at #1.
Question 2 ,Did you pull the distributor out?
At least the flame thrower effect lets you know you have spark.Ha.
When the guys say the distributor is in backward,they dont mean the cap is on backward.They mean, the crankshaft is on a exhaust stroke when the rotor is pointed at #1.
Question 2 ,Did you pull the distributor out?
At least the flame thrower effect lets you know you have spark.Ha.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Re: stumped by my '87 (screamingeagle)
Backfiring through the MAF is a GIANT sign that your spark timing is WAY out.
Spark is occurring when an intake valve is open and that is a no no. Get your timing light out and see where the timing mark occurs. If you took the distributor out and replaced it, you can install it either 180 deg out of place, or you can rotate the body of the distributor so far the timing is WAY off and the engine cannot start. Check the timing!!!!!! If you removed the plug wires from the dist cap and replaced them, you could have moved them over one or more connectors on the dist cap. Rotate the crankshaft for cyl #1 at TDC and then look at what plug wire the rotor is pointing to, it MUST point to cyl #1 plug wire.
Oh, and charge your battery back up with a 120 v battery charger!
[Modified by jfb, 11:28 PM 9/12/2003]
[Modified by jfb, 11:34 PM 9/12/2003]
Spark is occurring when an intake valve is open and that is a no no. Get your timing light out and see where the timing mark occurs. If you took the distributor out and replaced it, you can install it either 180 deg out of place, or you can rotate the body of the distributor so far the timing is WAY off and the engine cannot start. Check the timing!!!!!! If you removed the plug wires from the dist cap and replaced them, you could have moved them over one or more connectors on the dist cap. Rotate the crankshaft for cyl #1 at TDC and then look at what plug wire the rotor is pointing to, it MUST point to cyl #1 plug wire.
Oh, and charge your battery back up with a 120 v battery charger!
[Modified by jfb, 11:28 PM 9/12/2003]
[Modified by jfb, 11:34 PM 9/12/2003]
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 33
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From: Oak Grove Ky
Re: stumped by my '87 (jfb)
Here's the whole story, I was driving home in the rain and my car died going through a puddle for about an hour before I got it restarted. Made it home and drove it back to work the next day. The car was acting like it was missing on a cylinder so I decided to check the plugs and such. Got everything pulled apart, checked everything, found two bad plug wires, but other than that nothing abnormal. Put everything back together and tried to pull it out of the driveway, it didn't start. So here it sits, all the starting components have been tested, the fuel system is good, and it's got plenty of air. So mechanicly it "should" be working. As for my distributor I never took it off the engine, just the cap,rotor and plug wires. So i'm still completly lost. :banghead:
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Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 33
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From: Oak Grove Ky
Re: stumped by my '87 (Mark-44)
It died after I brought it back home from work, where I filled up with gas that afternoon, I think I only put about 12 miles on this tank, if it's outta gas, then my mileage REALLY sucks
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Re: stumped by my '87 (screamingeagle)
OK, now we can go to some more potential problems knowing the situation causing your no-start. Whether you can see them with casual examination or not, you could easily have carbon tracks inside or even on the outside of the distributor cap caused by water condensation forming inside the distributor cap and from water on the outside during splashing. With a bright light you should be able to see carbon tracks on either the outside or inside of the distributor cap. Backfiring can occur through a carbon track to a spark plug whose cylinder has an open intake valve!!! A cap and rotor are not expensive and I recommend that you replace yours and see if this fixes your problem. And in the future provide us with every detail of how your C4 got to the condition you are asking help for because valuable clues are left out otherwise.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: Newnan Ga
Re: stumped by my '87 (jfb)
It sounds like your fuel system is ok. You backfired through the intake because you fired a cylinder with the intake valve open. Basically that means that your timing is way off. It sounds like this can come only from a couple of things, one of them being self induced. The first is you might have stripped a timing gear. This will usually make your engine sound strange when you turn it over. You can confirm this condition by taking your distributor cap off and having somone crank the engine. I have put my finger on top of the rotor button to feel if it is smoothly turning. If the timing gear is stripped, it will be very jerky. The other and more likely cause is you probably have wired your cap backwards. Take the cap off to confirm the rotation direction of the rotor button. Then you can be sure that you wire it in the correct rotation direction. I have done this recently. It really makes you feel like a dope. You probably already had a bad plug wire or something and now you have something basic killing you.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 33
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From: Oak Grove Ky
Re: stumped by my '87 (Vic'89)
I already tried the MAF sensor, that's where I got my fire ball. If the distributor is stripped then it's been running with a stripped one since I got it because i've never removed it. I'll check the rotation tomorrow and let you know what I come up with, thanks again guys :D
Racer
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 293
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From: Newnan Ga
Re: stumped by my '87 (screamingeagle)
Just for clarification, I was refering to the timing gear and chain might be stripped and slipping. That's the one in the front. I haven't heard of the gear on the back of the cam being stripped.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: woodinville, wa, USA
Re: stumped by my '87 (screamingeagle)
on a previous post i recommended to unplug the MAF. Please try this. (Leave everything in place,MAF,intake tubing everything) Just un-plug the electrical connector and try to start it. this condition sounds like what i went through....