Ok lets make up a hypothetical situation. You install a plenum on an engine that causes a couple of cylinders to be super rich. You see all this raw fuel on your oxygen sensor readings and start to tune for it. You tune leaner and leaner and leaner trying to lean out those couple of rich cylinders and what do you end up with? A couple of crazy lean cylinders waiting to go boom.

Make any sense?

Its highly possible on engines like an L98 that only have a single O2 sensor on one bank of cylinders. Not everyone is gifted enough to have an EGT sensor on every header primary.

 

Brian, that makes sense, but how probable is it? More importantly how does Grumpy's plenum differ so much from the Blownvette backed plenum that one would destroy an engine while the other would not?
I'm still waiting for the accusation that broken Dana 36's are caused by Grumpy's plenum.

 

Hopefully not at all if a unit had extensive research and testing.

Without experience with either I can't comment on that.

 

My creditability with a few that has little or no experience with intakes is of any concern. I posted my direct phone number and spent a lot of time understanding the needs of those that called. I do fine it funny that a few continue to post asking questions but they would not call. If you are so interested call, over twenty did.

I never backed one I just said that the other one was better. It has the potential to be fixed, unlike the black box.

[B] :bs Please show me where I ever said that. If you don’t agree with my posts that is fine, but don’t make up false statements.
[/B}

Grumpy's part has been misrepresented in my opinion. Untested and the pattern of failures are now know. I could care less if anyone buys his thing or not, I posted my experience with a like product and predicted the failures that have occurred.

 

Blownvette never said that. :nonod:

 

I can't find it in the archives right now, but I believe it was the same thread where someone posted one of Art's emails which he wasn't too pleased about.
My memory could be playing tricks on me. If it is, you have my full apologies Art.

 

If I remember right it was Mr. Magoo that got the facts messed up in that one and he said that Blownvette said the plenum was the problem. I remember correcting him in the thread that it was a combination of Beach's brodix heads and early machining errors in the lower portion of the stealth ram on Holley's part.

 

Well I remembered 99% of it correctly. :D

Sorry Blownvette, my mistake.

 

Is anyone else tired of this plenum debate? How can we arrange a test of these? I would think if someone installed the Stealth Ram and swapped the stock vs. grumpy vs. BlownVette it should show if there is ANY power loss or gain. As far as fit and finish, close the hood and see. If I remember correctly, in ski_dwn_it's post on testing the single plane intake someone volunteered their Stealth Ram to test. All we would need are the two custom plenums and we'd be set. All I know is if I have to suffer through another Stealth Ram plenum debate I think I'm going to freak out. :crazy:

Maybe I should start another post concerning this. :confused:


[Modified by loiq, 7:06 PM 10/30/2003]

 

Sorry but I don't buy the bad plenum theory as far as leaning out the motor. Suffocating maybe if it was too small but not leaning out. I respect your thoughts here Scorp but Holley sells this product and they did the research on it. The only thing that Grumpy did was lower the ceiling a few inches. This could reduce air flow but not increase it. Think of it as putting a 2" thick air filter on a carb vs a 4". I know its not exactly the same but very similiar theory applies.
I do agree with your oxygen sensor theory if you were running it (the sensor) in one cylinder like some aftermarket headers do and that cylinder was flow restricted and others were not then yes it could lean out the others. I personally wouldn't run a sensor in one cylinder. I prefer the collector as a composite sample.
I spoke to Grumpy on the telephone and he is just a regular guy who wanted something different on his Corvette. He put something together and is offering it to others. It really is crazy to argue about it.
Well anyway I'll be putting one of these on soon so I'll post the results next month. I am a neutral party here so the results will be unbiased. I will let all know If there are hidden problems. I believe 89 Paul has already offered his opinions on this set up in a post above.
Oh well let the testing begin!
John

 

I never said anything bad about Holley's Stealthram. In fact I haven't badmouthed anyone here. :confused:

 

Yes I agree. You haven't bad mouthed anyone. I just put that in there because I didn't want you to take offense. I hope you didn't. I don't think I have ever seen you bad mouth anyone ever. In fact I enjoy reading the info that you put out there. It's too bad that some others miss use this forum as a pissing contest isn't it. Oh well. I hope your project is coming along as you hoped. Good luck with it.
I used to live in R.I. I drove through Raynham rt 138 every day to go to work in W. Bridgewater. Still have family in R.I.

John

 

Bahhhhhhhhhh he just isn't worth my time.





[Modified by Mr. Magoo, 8:45 PM 10/30/2003]

 

Wow! I go away for a few days and this thread got huge!
so let's get clarification and caught up.......
get comfortable, this is going to be a long post!!

(Scorp), I had phoned Holley's tech line way back(based on Grumpy's comment of problems stemming from production).....

The guy readilly admitted to holley incorrectly machining the upper plennum box but that they had no probs with the lower.
Recall I had coolant mixing with the oil as did Beachbum Todd when I lent him the manifold. I still can't figure that situation out. I feeler gauged clearances between it and my longblock, and all dimensions were within reason. There is slightly more height difference(the holley being higher away than the superram manifold lower when I compared the two)
Weather my manifold is not quite right is still a question.


So, I decided to do something different(induction wise) and pretty much shelve the whole stealthram thing.

We all know how much we value other forum members experiences with products vs. comments from the entity that made or manufactured the product. Since this forum has given me so much, I wanted to give back some by trying to provide any info I find on this most intersting intake system.

Initially I had spoken to Grumpy Paul(alhough haven't lately) and eventually Blownvette Art. I have heard both sides and understand& respect both parties. But I am still "in the middle". As probably many of you.

So....nothing like independant testing right? No offense to both parties, it's just curiousity on my part.

One thing I was looking into was putting the set-ups on a flow bench.
The way that would happen would be to take some cylinder heads (those most closely resembling the ones the manifold would be mated to) in this case, I have my freshened up D113's and my AFR 210's. I could take either.
Then, we pick the bore size most closely resembling the one the manifold would be mated to. In this case, 4.00 for our SBC's. The head would be set-up and then the intake manifold. We would flow 1 port, pick up manifold, move it down one, flow again, 2 more times on the remaining, flip the manifold around, and flow X4 again. We could get some dry CFM readings from each port and have a ballpark idea of what each one is flowing.
All that could be done on the modified upper and then go thru it all over again with the holley one if want to compare the two.

I went to hogans manifolds who are here nearby,
http://www.hogansracingmanifolds.com
and there is lettering on the door saying "Not open to the public" but I went in anyway. They have a flowbench, but he DID NOT want to help me at all!

I called and spoke to Joe Mondello
http://www.mondello.com
and he said he could do it, but $100.00 an hour.....looking at maybe 4 hours. His shop is 45 minutes north of me.

I also spoke to Allan Johnson
http://www.ajcylinderheads.com
(top fuel crew chief that tuned Tony Scumacher to a 4.47 recently) as his shop is here in town and they can do it at $68.00 an hour....looking at approx 4 hours. Said this is their busy season and would take a awhile to get to tho.

As some of you know, my last motor (the 391) I purchased from Speed-O-Motive
http://www.speedomotive.com
and have been dealing with them kinda closely. I have been continueing to sort out some issues with them and as a result, you get to know people, and people get to know you. So I have a decnt relationship with them right now. There ARE issues I have with them, but it's in the communication and just being a cordial human being speaking with a civil tongue that allows us to work with each other for the greater good. Hopefully with positive results/growth/learning on all counts.

That being said....
I don't know if any of you read Superchevy magazine once in awhile? Do you follow their "danger mouse" motor build ups?
Well......their danger mouse is now residing at guess where? That's right, speedomotive. You know if you follow it, they test their mods on an engine dyno. I have visited S O M frequently in LA and have been there to witness the installation of their new engine dyno. On each header primary is an EGT sensor. (remember that)
I emailed the tech editor at super chevy magazine to see if we could work something out between me, them and speedomotive where I can use DM for a test mule under the 2 intake versions. Wouldn't you know it, the tech ed (Mike Petralia) just resigned recently and DM is being handled by someone else now. I called S O M and he told me the name of the new guy, but I forgot it. I'll ask again soon here. Currently DM has a big ATI charger on it that put out over 700 HP. It blew out the head gaskets and they are currently removing the ATI from DM.
Maybe I can set something up where I can get the two manifolds on and take EGT readings from the header primaries. That would shed SOME light. No?

At this point, my stealth is in my garage just sitting there. I had planned to put it on Ebay very soon here to help offset the expenses of my new build up.

If any one wants to buy it here, let me know!
So, that's where I stand as of today. I can't really afford mondello, AJ's might be a possibility.....but I am hoping to sneak onto DM at S O M for minimal $$$.
Whew! That was a novel!
Any comments or questions for me?
I may be way off base by doing these kinds of tests. So let me know.
Check out the links in my post too! Neat stuff.
I also want to add that once you get all the parts corraled and together, the manifold installs on and off like a miniram. Very easy. I loved it for that.




[Modified by 89 Paul in Cal, 6:04 PM 10/30/2003]

 

John you can use the search and find that your buddy Grumpy was the one that started the mud slinging. He is the one that chose to call me out. In the past I posted that I preferred another plenum to his, period! For a long time I kept quiet about my experiences using a converted tunnel ram and low plenum. His is no different; if you want to try it, go do it. I wish you the best of luck.

I do find it a little funny that the ones that are here doubting what I say consider a cut lid and K&N filter a note worthy mod. Maybe not a big deal I consider it a sign that manifold testing may be over the limits of experience.

Well I see that very differently. I see a guy that made 50 plenums and has spamed very relevant website with his new business. He made many posts that were false in my opinion and the testing he said he did was irrelevant.

I have no concern or interest in his box or the other one, just an unbiased opinion based on having actually having done it and knowing the reason his has failed for every one that has telephoned me. Not a pissing contest just a fair observation. Anyway his box has been out for quite a while now, where are all the people that have one working?

Please don’t be coy. You were being antagonistic trying to get me into a conversation I wanted no part. Also you failed to mention the reason for the e-mail, it was a reply to yours. You considered our private e-mails public so I just posted what you sent me, just like what you did.

 

Hey I didn't post your work address and phone numbers for all the world to see!!! :mad
Originally I just wanted to learn the truth about this intake, I was thinking of buying it. But since you never tested it yourself (anyone for that matter), let alone ever even seen one in person I dismissed your babble as just that.............Un researched BABBLE!!! I since decided to move on to another intake for the time being.
I'm sorry I originally E-mailed you about what claims you had on Grumpys intake as being flawed, obviously it was a HUGE mistake....................and you think I should actually call you??? I'm not going to waste my time! Hell I'd rather just meet you in person, you have my address come on over!!! :mad


Ever since this plenum design was fabricated by Grumpyvette and introduced, you've been writing it off as a poor design with many flaws (If anyone does any search for the Modified StealthRam they would find your claims).
They'll also find your winded banter of how extensive your expertise is on intake designing. To be quite honest, I really could care less of your claimed engineering resume and intake fabricating background.....that you so Lavishly brag about. I'm only concerned with actual documented testing on THIS particular intake, which in this case, you have no experience with.

So, unless you can support your claims as to why this intake is so flawed, your ramblings mean nothing to me.

Have a nice life. :seeya





[Modified by Mr. Magoo, 10:31 PM 10/30/2003]

 

Please give me a detailed description of what you consider documented testing?

 

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey I didn't post your work address and phone numbers for all the world to see!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You started the fire that burned you. If you can’t handle the heat, don’t start the fire.

I know what your intentions were and it is obvious that you continue to try to antagonize me and it won’t work.

Feel free to disagree with my opinions, I don’t care.

 

Man I guess that I really opened a can of worms on this one. I guess Ill just stay put with my super ram. :boxing

 

Hey Blown Vette,

Do you still have the link to the other C4 Stealth Plenum?