Have just remove the heads from my 87 Vette (aluminum heads) due to a failure of a head gasket leaking into coolant system. The gaskets were replaced about 40K miles ago (Vette now has 95K total miles) with Fel-Pro #1010 gaskets when I did some porting of the heads (no leak at that time).
The failure was on #7 cylinder at the fire ring located towards the rear end of the head. The fire ring was not broken or eaten away, but protuded inward towards the cylinder bore. The ring was actually fully in the bore, away from the clamp between the head/block by about 1 inch in length and about 1/16" inward (the whole ring surface, not just the inward edge of the ring. In other words, the only seal in that area was the composition material of the gasket, not the fire ring (which eventually failed). I can see from the carbon buildup on the block surface that the fire ring was protruding inward for quite some time, but not as bad as when it finally failed.

Since I installed these gaskets myself, I "refuse" to believe that they were defective when installed. Besides, I would not expect the gasket to last for 40K miles if it was defective to begin with. The removal torque on all the bolts was very good. The heads and block were checked for warp prior to installation, I will of course do the same before reinstallation.

Anyone ever see anything similar or has any recommendations, I would appreciate hearing them.

Thanks,

 

ON my third set of 1010 gaskets in 3 years. Some of it is my fault but once was not.

 

Hmm.... I put 10k miles on my last set of 1010s and they looked brand new when I pulled the heads after damaging a head from ingesting a bolt. The current set of 1010 have about 4k on them now. I've never even had to retorque the heads with these things.

 

Here are some pics of the failure:





I tried to get a pic of the block, but no luck. As I said above, the whole fire ring was protruding past the edge of the bore by 1/16"!

Plasticman

 

Wow. Anything happen wierd to cause it that you know of? I might be tempted to send those pictures to felpro and ask them what they think of it. Maybe they'll credit you.

 

Is that in the same area as the first leak? If so, I'd guess the deck isn't square where it meets the bore. Combustion gasses escaped below the gasket separating the fire ring from the composite. You might be able to check it with a straight edge and a laser pen with a piece of cardboard or what have you behind the edge. Any light that gets through would indicate a depression.

 

Good idea to send pics to Fel-Pro! The only sign was an elevated temp reading when coming back from a swap meet (temp was reading about 190-to 205, where normally for the ambient temp and speed I expected about 170F). I have a 160F thermostat, and both fans kick in at 211F, so it normally does not get anywhere as hot as a "normal" L98.

I replaced the head gaskets previously due to porting of the heads, not a gasket failure. This is the 1st head gasket failure I have had on this engine, and the first head gasket I have had fail on any engine I have rebuilt of probably over 50 engines over the years for customers and friends (other than the one my wife fried when a heater hose broke on our SBC powered Avanti - she just "had to" get off the tollway, and went 5 miles "extra" so she could avoid the high tow/repair prices the Tollway has - of course if she had stopped right away and called me, I could of fixed the hose and not had to replace the gaskets and deck the heads!).

Thanks,
Plasticman


[Modified by Plasticman, 4:31 PM 11/2/2003]

 

Aren’t copper head gaskets supposed to be the best? :confused:

 

IBEAM700.

I tried copper head gaskets back when I was running an Altered Dragster, and found out the hard way that they just don't work all that well. Copper is a pretty soft material and does not "bounce" back, and takes a set and will fail in just a few temp. cycles. May be fine for the guy doing a couple of runs down the track, and then pulling the heads, but for longivity, a composition (or the even original steel gaskets) work far better. Now the gasket makers have brought out MLS (Multiple Layered Steel) gaskets for sealing difficult alum. heads on high temp. engines, but they are not designed/tooled for all engines (have not seen any for SBC engines yet).

The Fel-Pro 1010 has been the "standard" high performance head gasket for alum. headed SBC, since it will not brinnel (indent) the aluminum surface of the head.

There are better gaskets for the SBC if your running cast iron heads.

Plasticman

 

I agree with SunCr. Looks like compression got past the seal and pushed it out. Only takes a .0000000000000001... Fel Pro does have an excellent tech service. Send them the pictures. :chevy

 

How come not use fel-pro 1003's?

 

89 Paul in Cal,

I was concerned with brinelling the head surface. I know that Fel-Pro says 1003's are OK to use with alum. heads but not with alum. blocks, and they have a steel wire ring, whereas the 1010's have a copper wire ring and state that the 1010's will not brinell the head surface. Fel-Pro's Master Catalog states that 1010's are "Recommended for 86-91 Corvette aluminum heads".

I must admit that maybe you are correct and I should go with the harder material!

The other problem I see is that the 1003's are .041 compressed and the 1010's are .039 compressed. Every little bit helps when you are trying to maximize quench (to kill detonation) by reducing the head to piston distance as much as possible.

Thanks,
Plasticman


[Modified by Plasticman, 10:22 PM 11/2/2003]

 

I have been using the 1003's w/ no probs. I just went out to the garage and examined my D113's and AFR 210's. The D113's had 20K miles when I pulled them and the AFR's 1K when pulled those. Absolutely no brinelling at all.
The gaskets themselves look perfectly new too.
You are correct about the compressed thickness. Got me on that one.

 

I have an 88. Nevertheless, I have been doing this for a living all of my life. I have seen that over and over again. It has always been from overheating or just flat time on an engine, like 100,000 miles.

 

46,000 miles and holding strong, never blew a head gasket yet.(i'm not worried about jinxing myself, if it's going to happen, it'll happen) and I am pretty sure they're 1010's. :cheers:

 

Is it possible the when ported, the combustion chamber for that (and maybe other) cylinder is now too large allowing the ring to be exposed to combustion temps?

Try laying a fresh head gasket on the head to check this; then do the same with the block.

Jake

 

Jake,

Thanks for the reply, but no, the combustion chambers were not touched (just the intake and exhaust ports). See the pic above showing the head surface with the head gasket well within the edge from the chamber (until the gasket fire ring decided to migrate out to the bore!).

Thanks again,
Plasticman

 

Can you post a pic of how an undamaged gasket looks properly positioned on the cylinder head? And maybe one on the block too.

Jake

 

Can you post some photos of an undamaged gasket on the cylinder head and one of it on the block; both positioned as it would install on the engine?

Jake

 

I also had that failure with the Felpro 1010. Rebuilt the engine last summer and after 6k miles, cylinder 8 had antifreeze dumping into it. Pulled the heads and the metal ring on cylinders 1,7 and 2, were also starting to be pulled into the cylinder.

This was on a 355 with AFR heads. I spoke with AFR and they said to use
the 1003 instead of the 1010. The 1010 is what they recommended on their web-site for the AFR 190 heads.

It appears Felpro has had problems with the 1010.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...ht=felpro+1010

I pulled both heads and used the 1003's and so far no problems. :crazy: