I know that there is a lot of excitement over the new banks system, but it is still out of reach for some of us. Please give me your thoughts on a system "similiar" to these. http://www.ststurbo.com I would like technical comments please.

 

There was a thread on this a while ago. The builder of the kit sounded like he knew his stuff, but never came back to tell us about the possibility of running on a vette--just an Fbody.

 

It is hard to believe that having the turbo that far back from cylinder head that you would not have alot of lag. Maybe the displacement of a small block helps offset that. Most of my turbo experience is on 3.3 to 3.6 liter turbo Porsches where you did not have the displacement increase to help on low end. We always tried to get turbo as close to exhuast manifold as possible and have as short as possible turbo to intake pipe as well.

 

Turbo lag would definately be questionable. They do address that issue on the Web site, but I wonder what it is really like. I'm sure it makes good power once it is spooled up, but the all around lag issue's concern me. Also, my cars are speed density. Would I just tune the VE table's for the appropriate boost level, or would I need some kind of FMU?

 

Speed Density with MAP of 2 or 3 bar depending on the level of boost.

With a stock computer, running an FMU on a turbo car is more important than on an S/C car because boost levels on turbo cars depend on the load more than the RPM from what I understand.

With an S/C you can just program your ECM according to your fuel needs.


[Modified by vvv90, 1:11 PM 12/19/2003]

 

Just got off the phone with Rick at STS and they may have a kit for the C4 next year. Right now the company is growing so quickley they don't have time for product development. I did however offer to donate two of my vehicles for future product testing though. Rick also is giving my phone number to a customer, local to my area, that is having a kit installed on his Fbody. When I experience the car I will relay the results. :cheers:


[Modified by crheinish, 11:27 AM 12/19/2003]


[Modified by crheinish, 11:28 AM 12/19/2003]

 

I looked at that kit before, but with the pictures, it's hard to see how it is all put together? Where is the turbo? Underneath the whole engine? What about ground clearance? If I decide to keep my car, I am deffinitely going with a turbo set up, there is supposedly a kit coming out this jan. I've been watching the site waiting for updates. So there is that kit coming out in a month, and the gale banks kit in a few months. I like the idea of having the turbos down low, out of site like the C5 lingenfelter kits, the calloways would be good to if the intercooler was a front mount. I want the car to look stock to the untrained eye.

 

On the camaro's the turbo is back by the rear diff and under the fuel tank shield. You could pull the spare tire and mount one there on a C4. The only give away that you are running a turbo, would be the intake tubing heading from the TB to the back of the car. It would be pretty clean from the engine bay.

 

So how would you keep the exhaust velocity up? Smaller exhaust tubing? What about 2 turbos that are smaller than a big one so they spool up faster and combined have enough flow and boost.

 

I believe that two smaller turbo's that spool quicker would be a better solution, but that starts to get more expensive and more piping is involved. Granted, it wouldn't be alot more, but more. I was kind of thinking about doing this if it could be done with a small amount of money. The fabrication seems like that would be pretty easy. I would need help with the design though. Sizing the exhaust/ intake track and the turbo would be the technical part of this install.

 

Interesting idea - but I see no intercoolers - and one thing is for sure, if you're going to boost, you're going to want to intercool too.

One thing cracked me up about the site - they show a turbo red hot and indicate that this is why they locate it at the back of the car, saying "would you want that under your hood?"

Only problem is: The exhaust manifold is equally hot, and it remains under the hood!

I also don't like the air intake behind the wheels - don't drive in rain with this car! Cool concept though, and the price is definitely right! :seeya

 

don't think it will work all that well. turbos depending on heat and exh gas energy to spool. as mentioned earlier, keep the turbos snug to the exh ports.

I'd like to see a running example. with a really small turbo it would spool but then choke off top end power.

only one way to do this, RIGHT!! you could probably buy a callaway and convert it to the sledgehammer intercooler style. at least those cars have the turbos/manifolds engineered properly. the banks manifolds look ok too, or you can call up Troy T. (Rad rides by troy), he built the c4 for meaney, but bring your wallet and it better be thick!! troy only does top notch show quality stuff.

but then again, meaney's car does 1200 HP which isn't bad!! :reddevil

 

If you go through their test data, however, they do perform. 510rwhp from the ls1 camaro setup isn't bad. Id definitely ditch the water injection and go with some sort of intercooler. I wouldnt wanna bank my motor on whether or not a water tank is full. As far as boost threshhold goes, one can use a turbine housing to provide boost at wherever one chooses. You think it would take forever to spool, or on the other end be to restrictive up top if you use a small housing. But remember the exhaust gases have cooled significantly and are therefore more dense. The same amount of molecules in the exhaust stream are present, just occupying less space. So the same energy is reaching the turbo (relatively, as one is wasting some of the heat energy that could be used to power the turbine). Using a smaller exhaust hausing to provide the desired boost levels @ the rear shouldnt increase Turbine inlet pressure any higher that a big housing right by the heads. Yes one can probably make more power placing that turbo as close as possible to the motor. And if sick high HP is your goal, then making the major concessions up front(believe me I speak from exp.) and spending much $ shouldnt be a prob. But if 5-600 rwhp is your goal and you don't want to cut your car apart then I think one shouldn't discount this concept yet. Thats just my $0.02. :chevy

 

good points, and there is a ton of space back there, it just seems funky running the plumbing back and forth. wouldn't this also cause more of a problem with turbo surge?? On my turbo buick, going to a front mount caused part throttle turbo surge which is really a PITA. yup 510 at the wheels is a bunch!!! :cheers: :iagree:

 

I realize that a turbo setting in the back of the car seems like the easy way out and it might be a little ricey or ghetto. (its still a turbo=cool) If I were to run said turbo, I would not be looking for all out ***** to the walls power. I am not looking for a "drag" queen either. This setup would have to run well in a variety of conditions including autox, road racing, drag racing, spirited street driving, and a weekend cruise or two. An honest 500rwhp on pump gas should get it done. (for now) I think doing the work yourself would save a bundle as well. If I could get the specifics on blower sizing, intake track sizing and such, the rest would be a breeze.

 

If you read on the web site they use turbos with very small a/r's on the trubine housings to make up for the "cooling" effect that the long pipes have.

 

What exactly do you mean by surge? The definition of surge is making a turbo run to the left mostline on it's compressor map , causing unstable acceleration of the air and a loud chirping sound when the air escapes it's way past the spinning compressor wheel and out the inducer bore. It can cause heavy damage to the turbo. I dont see how going to a front mount could cause this. IF you talking about annoying part throttle boost due to a small a/r on the hot side then I know where your coming from. When I hot rodded a friends WRX (built a one off 3" exhaust with seperate wategate pipe, front mount, header, uppipe, got rid of all factory cats and replaced them with a high efficiency single one.) the only thing that hadnt been changed yet was the factory turbo. It's souch a tight turbo due to the resticions of the original setup the he would get a bar of boost at part throttle. It would buck and surge due to the fact that the stock BOV couldnt flow fast enough for what the turbo could pump, so instead of steady vacuum holding the valve open and preventing part throttle boost it "boost creeps" until the bov shuts. Surge, buck repeat. The solution was a BIG bov and a bigger turbo. No more part throttle boost creep, and now the thing does 12.4's at 107 with a 1.5 '60! on pump gas! Not bad for a little 2000cc motor! There is still more left, but we havent upped the boost any higher than 18psi for fear that the tranny will give up.

 

I live in UT, about 30 miles from the shop that built this kit. I was skeptical as hell at first. I figured it would have a ton of lag, and the methanol injection was just a bandaide for a non-properly tuned car. I spent about 3 hours at Rick's shop one day talking with him about the kit, and getting my questions answered. When it was all over, I was a little more convinced, but still skeptical. Then I saw the dyno numbers. Impressive, but good dyno numbers do not equal stellar ET's. Finally, I raced the rear mount turbo LS1 camaro, and lost. Then I rode in the car. It's a little laggy, but has full boost by about 3300 in first gear. In the upper gears the boost comes on almost instantly. All in all, impressive kit.

The most impressive thing, is that the car was able to run me down. We raced form a stop, and I killed him off the line. My car is capable of high teen trap speeds, so for him to able to run me down is extremely impressive.

If I still had an F-body, I would probably do this kit.

 

The get away with out an intercooler because of the exeptionally long intake tract. Also the adibiatic effcieny of the turbo is way up because it is almost 500 degrees cooler where they mount in comparison to a conventional kit. When the LS1 car I raced used the methanol injection, his intake air temps actually went down under boost. That's not entirely correct. What causes the exhaust manifold to heat up so much in a turbocharged application is back pressure under boost. There is considerably more pipe between the turbo and the exhaust valve seat on this kit. All that pipe has to befilled with pressure, and the all get hot. It takes much longer to heat all that piping than it does to heat just the header.The kit was originally designed for 4WD applications. Many of the kits have been through the mud and snow without incident. They do use an airfilter sock on the trucks though. There have been a couple F-body pre-release kits running around here for awhile now, and none of them have had any problems.

 

Full boost at 3300RPM is perfect for a street car. Centrifual SC's have the same downfall as this kit appears to have.

Now couple the kit with a torquey stroker motor and I think you'll have the best of both worlds.

Even with some wide drag radials, with a rebuilt stroker and a turbo that doesn't come on strong until ~3000RPM, you'll still have trouble keeping traction.

That's my $.02