I'm going to apologize in advance for the length of this post, but I want to make sure all the information I have about the problem is detailed. Hopefully "we" can figure this out.

First, some background. I have a '91 coupe. About a year ago, I had an aftermarket alarm installed. About 6 months ago, the remote starter stopped working. It would light everything up, but would not make the starter engage, nothing. As time went on, very occassionally it would not start by way of the key. I would walk away from it, come back, and it would. The intermittent non-starting has been happening more often as time has gone on. Over this time, i've replaced the battery, alternator, and starter. All are in perfect working order.

After being stranded for about 2 hours last week, I drove it home, and shut it off in the garage, tried to restart, nothing. I then took out the alarm, hooked the starter wire back together that was routed through the alarm, and it fired right up. I thought I had it fixed... nope. It's been about a week, starting it multiple times every day no prob, and just last night I drove it about 10 miles, shut it off, tried to start it about 3 hours later, nothing. Same as every other time, everything lights up, but nothing. I tried pulling the shifter through the "gears" and back into park, nothing, but did not try it in neutral. :( Had I, I could have determined for sure if it was the neutral safety switch, argh...

I jacked the car up, turned the key to "run", jumped the solenoid connection to the starter connection, fired right up. Since then, it's started normally.

I read today about running a ground straight off the start enable relay, which based on the schematic eliminates the ccm from having any effect on the relay any longer, is this the case?

The vats is also bypassed, so the best I can figure is the only thing left that could be wrong, if it happens again, is the neutral safety switch, or an intermittent short in a wire somewhere?

Is there someway I can bypass the neutral safety switch? If if fails to start again, I want to be able to bypass the neutral switch to see if it will start, then I will know for sure if that is the problem. Of course, i've thought about just replacing it, and hopefully that would eliminate it being a possibility. Is this a dealer only part?

I also wanted to add, I read in numerous other threads about listening for a "click" under the dash when trying to start, as that would be the start enable relay clicking. This is not necessarily the case. When you turn the key to "run", the Delayed Accessory Bus Relay also is activated, and makes a click. So, it's a bit misleading to be listening for a "click", when it could be just the DAB relay clicking, not the start enable relay.

Another thing, I went through the diagnostic test 1.4 to cycle the ccm outputs. When I try the test for the DAB relay, it actuates it. When I try the test for the start enable relay, nothing happens?!!? I tried it as originally wired, and with the addition direct ground, and nothing. I assumed it would not click with the direct ground, but it should certainly work without the direct ground. What does this mean? Has anyone else tried this? What happened? I even swapped the DAB and start enable relays, since they are the same, and no change. Both seemed to operate normally by way of the key, but with the diagnostic test, neither will "click" when plugged into the start enable spot, but both will in the DAB spot.

As it sits, it is starting normally, but I have this uneasy feeling that it is going to strand me somewhere, and want to try and figure out the problem before that happens, but it's becoming near impossible since the condition that keeps it from starting only happens when i'm away from home with no tools. :mad

1 final thing. I think I would like to put another relay or solenoid (a remote starting point)under the hood, so I have another place to start the car if this happens again; as opposed to jacking the car up, and doing it that way. Anyone have a suggestion as to how I should go about this? Anyone done it before?

PLEASE HELP!!!

Thanks all,
Ken

 

You can bypass the NS switch. Under the steering wheel. I believe it will be the two biggest wires at the connector. Check the battery and other visible engine grounds. The battery ground must be of original size and in good order. Check for heat on this wire when car wont start. Check the hot too. Did you have LEDs added for your alarm? It is possible that they have anough current draw to kepp a relay from resetting.

 

Thanks. Which "connector" are you referring to under the steering wheel? What color are the wires I should be looking for? I've checked all the grounds I could reach/see. The battery cables are relatively new, and were installed properly. There is 1 LED from the alarm, and I checked the draw, it was between .2-.3 amps, which is negligable best I can tell.

I forgot before, I have read that there is the possibility that the "purple" wire coming from the neutral safety switch to the solenoid can "breakdown" over time and create a high resistence, and not allow as much juice to get to the solenoid. Does anyone know if there is some way I can check this other then when the non-start condition occurs?

 

It could be your neutral safety switch being intermittent. If you have a 6 speed the neutral switch is activated by the clutch pedal and you can unplug this switch and jump the connector. If you have an automatic, the safety switch is on the gear shift and can also be jumped. I also get the feeling that your VATS bypass could be intermittent because of your experience with the start enable relay not closing or you may have a poor connection on the two coil wires on the socket for the start enable relay. Check for 12 volts on the start enable relay coil socket connections when you have the ccm test operate the start enable relay. Also, remove and clean your battery cables and battery posts!
The purple wire on the safety switch has 12v on it when the start enable relay is closed and the ign key is in crank position. You can measure the voltage to see if there is 12v then. Also, you an jump 12v to the purple wire and the starter solenoid should close and the starter should crank. If it doesn't crank, then the connection through the firewall connector could be suspect. Measure the resistance from the purple wire to the starter solenoid terminal on the starter. This measures the resistance through the firewall connector. Do this when it won't crank.


[Modified by jfb, 11:21 AM 4/1/2004]