Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 902
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From: Glen Allen, VA
CI 3-4-6-8-9 Veteran
Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice
Crap :(.
Here's the situation, my '94 daily driver with 110,000 miles on it has been having coolant issues. I've replaced most of the hoses and water pump. On Friday I saw white smoke coming from the exhaust and took it to the dealer since I was now over my head (mechanically speaking) because I knew it was a head gasket.
Guy from the dealer just called and said they _could_ replace the head gasket (and maybe heads) since there is coolant in the oil for around $2,500 :(. He said with that many miles, there may be more damage to it.
He said the tech was recommending an engine replacement for around $7,700 instead of trying to replace it. He said he could maybe find a used LT1 but couldn't warrantee it. I also asked about a 383 and he said he'd have to contact GMPP.
I know some of you may have been faced with these decisions. What Would C4Tech Do?
*Heads over to C4's for Sale*
:(
Here's the situation, my '94 daily driver with 110,000 miles on it has been having coolant issues. I've replaced most of the hoses and water pump. On Friday I saw white smoke coming from the exhaust and took it to the dealer since I was now over my head (mechanically speaking) because I knew it was a head gasket.
Guy from the dealer just called and said they _could_ replace the head gasket (and maybe heads) since there is coolant in the oil for around $2,500 :(. He said with that many miles, there may be more damage to it.
He said the tech was recommending an engine replacement for around $7,700 instead of trying to replace it. He said he could maybe find a used LT1 but couldn't warrantee it. I also asked about a 383 and he said he'd have to contact GMPP.
I know some of you may have been faced with these decisions. What Would C4Tech Do?
*Heads over to C4's for Sale*
:(
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 25,295
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From: I'm the walkin dude I can see all of the world...
St. Jude Donor '03
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (TimC)
First thing I would do is get it out of the Chevy Dealer and find a trustworthy Mechanic. Thats just me though and you don't have Bill Heard as your dealer. :cuss
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 2
From: seattle WA
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (VictorRussell'92)
I think -first if I had good oil pressure before this, I would do a compression test.Just to see what type of compression I had in cyclinders that are not effected by the blown gasket-if the compression in those cyclinders were within tolerances I would opt to replace head gaskets.Alot depends on the condition of the motor b4 blowing the head gasket-if in fact it's just a blown gasket.Good Luck and let us know :seeya
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,030
Likes: 6
From: Maryland
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (rick lambert)
Agree--if it's just a daily driver, you just want to replace the gasket and heads as necessary, so along as the rest of the engine is ok, and that is not so hard to determine.
If you like it fast, then yeah, maybe you should just put a 383 in there rather than spend any money repairing this LT1 and getting nothing performancewise.
Then again, if you opt for the heads, you can put some ported LT1 heads on there and maybe a cam also for no additional labor cost.
If you like it fast, then yeah, maybe you should just put a 383 in there rather than spend any money repairing this LT1 and getting nothing performancewise.
Then again, if you opt for the heads, you can put some ported LT1 heads on there and maybe a cam also for no additional labor cost.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,088
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From: Lakeland fl
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (TimC)
I would;
#1- get it out of the dealers garage.
#2-Consider the overall condition of the engine, pre- head gasket failure.
If your engine ran like a champ-
Consider just changing the gaskets. Minus labor- this can be done for under $100. The right way to do it would be to deck the heads and the block- which would require disassembly of the engine. Many times you can get away with just the new gaskets, other times you can get away with decking just the heads. If youre worried, take the heads to the machine shop and have them checked. They can check them for cracks/warpage and maybe even do a valve job while theyre at it.
Otherwise, tear the whole engine apart and put some good parts in there for the price the dealer would charge for the cheap stuff. Take the leftover money and buy a new set of tires for that extra horsepower.
#1- get it out of the dealers garage.
#2-Consider the overall condition of the engine, pre- head gasket failure.
If your engine ran like a champ-
Consider just changing the gaskets. Minus labor- this can be done for under $100. The right way to do it would be to deck the heads and the block- which would require disassembly of the engine. Many times you can get away with just the new gaskets, other times you can get away with decking just the heads. If youre worried, take the heads to the machine shop and have them checked. They can check them for cracks/warpage and maybe even do a valve job while theyre at it.
Otherwise, tear the whole engine apart and put some good parts in there for the price the dealer would charge for the cheap stuff. Take the leftover money and buy a new set of tires for that extra horsepower.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (TimC)
I did some searching once recently and found a few companies that offered rebuilt LT1'S using OEM or higher quality componets, for under $1,900 !!! (including the core charge).
Waranty included.
Let me know if you wan't help with the search or to dig up my old info on this.
:cheers:
Waranty included.
Let me know if you wan't help with the search or to dig up my old info on this.
:cheers:
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 9,713
Likes: 3
From: Sachse Texas
Cruise-In I Veteran
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (SBNova)
Depending on how much and how long the coolant has ben in the oil, the bearings of the motor may be shot since the stuff eats through the bearing materials.
However, I agree, get the car out of the hands of the dealership. $7700 is a very nice buildup. And you could probably have the bottom end of the motor cleaned up with some new bearings and reassembled for a lot less outside of the dealership.
I would probably just replace the head gasket and be done with it though (never at dealership pricing).
However, I agree, get the car out of the hands of the dealership. $7700 is a very nice buildup. And you could probably have the bottom end of the motor cleaned up with some new bearings and reassembled for a lot less outside of the dealership.
I would probably just replace the head gasket and be done with it though (never at dealership pricing).
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 902
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From: Glen Allen, VA
CI 3-4-6-8-9 Veteran
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (BlackBeast2)
I should've added that the car still runs. It doesn't overheat or miss at all. It does have a bit of a rough idle (just wavers a bit between 700-800 but has for awhile). The only sign I knew anything was wrong was the white smoke billowing from the exhaust. Does this sound like it can be saved? Never blown a head gasket before so not sure what other signs I should see.
Now I've gotta find a good shop in Richmond area. I'll take it up there and see what they say. I have a feeling the dealership just doesn't want the hassle of dealing with the "old car". :mad
Thanks all. :cheers:
Now I've gotta find a good shop in Richmond area. I'll take it up there and see what they say. I have a feeling the dealership just doesn't want the hassle of dealing with the "old car". :mad
Thanks all. :cheers:
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Instructor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento california
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (TimC)
check out Ebay i often see low mileage LT1 engine/transmission combo which also includes the wiring harness+computer module for for less than $3,000
Racer
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 311
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From: Houston, Texas
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (TimC)
The amount of smkoe itn't necessarily an indication of major damage. It's more a sign of the water in the cylinder. All the rest of the posts have suggested pulling the heads and checking before you jump on a new engine. The dealer is the last place to have this done. For what it's worth, have the heads pulled and checked for warp. It's not that hard to do. If they check out and are not cracked, replace the gaskets. Have the oil checked for water and if there is water, check the bearings. Otherwise, I wouldn't spring for a replacement motor unless you have spare money lying around. Just my thought, for what it's worth.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: DrunkDefender
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St. Jude Donor '07-'10
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (Tom Meehan)
I work as a tech at a Chevy dealership. Find someone somewhere else that you trust. Head gaskets are 14.7 hours labor by the book at whatever hourly rate the dealership charges. There are some other add ons but if it were me I would change head gaskets. No way I would even consider getting another motor based on what you've said. Heck, if you were close I'd say bring it over to my house along with a 12 pack and we could takle both head gaskets in a weekend.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,516
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From: Lockport NY
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (Dr. Evil)
...if it were me I would change head gaskets...
But by all means, get it out of that dealership. Leave skid marks. :crazy: :yesnod: :lol:
Pro
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 559
Likes: 17
From: Coppell TX
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (Rich B.)
yea, just change head gaskets- its a relatively easy task.
I have a <100mile LT1 ill sell you for $1500 if you really want to change the motor.
I have a <100mile LT1 ill sell you for $1500 if you really want to change the motor.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,858
Likes: 7
From: Santa Maria CA
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (SBNova)
[QUOTE]I would;
#1- get it out of the dealers garage.
#2-Consider the overall condition of the engine, pre- head gasket failure.
If your engine ran like a champ-
Consider just changing the gaskets. Minus labor- this can be done for under $100.[QUOTE]
:iagree:
I could not agree more. You say it's still runs fine, no misses, no overheating. I seriously doubt you need a new motor like the dealership told you. Unless you want to get a 383, save your money and just replace the head gaskets. I,ve done this job on my 86 in the past myself in the drive way. It's not that hard.
Get your Vette out of the Dealership first. You will be glad you did.
[Modified by 86PACER, 3:03 PM 4/5/2004]
#1- get it out of the dealers garage.
#2-Consider the overall condition of the engine, pre- head gasket failure.
If your engine ran like a champ-
Consider just changing the gaskets. Minus labor- this can be done for under $100.[QUOTE]
:iagree:
I could not agree more. You say it's still runs fine, no misses, no overheating. I seriously doubt you need a new motor like the dealership told you. Unless you want to get a 383, save your money and just replace the head gaskets. I,ve done this job on my 86 in the past myself in the drive way. It's not that hard.
Get your Vette out of the Dealership first. You will be glad you did.
[Modified by 86PACER, 3:03 PM 4/5/2004]
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 902
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From: Glen Allen, VA
CI 3-4-6-8-9 Veteran
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (86PACER)
Thanks guys...I feel better than I did this morning. I've got a call in to the local Vette mechanic I've dealt with once or twice before to get his input and see if he'll do the work.
Dr Evil, sure I can't talk you into a whole case of beer for it. :cheers:
Jordan, save that motor for a week or so just in case. :lol:
Thanks again everyone!
Dr Evil, sure I can't talk you into a whole case of beer for it. :cheers:
Jordan, save that motor for a week or so just in case. :lol:
Thanks again everyone!
Race Director
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Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (TimC)
Thanks guys...I feel better than I did this morning. I've got a call in to the local Vette mechanic I've dealt with once or twice before to get his input and see if he'll do the work.
Dr Evil, sure I can't talk you into a whole case of beer for it. :cheers:
Jordan, save that motor for a week or so just in case. :lol:
Thanks again everyone!
Dr Evil, sure I can't talk you into a whole case of beer for it. :cheers:
Jordan, save that motor for a week or so just in case. :lol:
Thanks again everyone!
Sorry i am getting in on this late...but have you actually found evidence of oil scum in the radiator or frothing of coolant on the dipstick? Didn't see where that was mentioned!
If you don't have either of those conditions, run a compression check on all cylinders. Bad head gasket will show up as low compression in one or more adjacent cylinders.
If compression is ok and equal in all cylinders, and there is no coolant in the oil and vice versa look for coolant leak at intake manifold allowing coolant to enter one or more cylinders.
Oh yeah! One more question! Are you actually loosing any coolant?
:seeya
:steering:
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
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From: The Top of Utah
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (jackdaroofer)
Dealer recommending replacing engine
Buy a service manual, and dig in. You'll have fun.
RACE ON!!!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 902
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From: Glen Allen, VA
CI 3-4-6-8-9 Veteran
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (jackdaroofer)
Hey Tim,
Heya Jack
Sorry i am getting in on this late...but have you actually found evidence of oil scum in the radiator or frothing of coolant on the dipstick? Didn't see where that was mentioned!
I didn't see any scum in the radiator. Clean as a whistle. I also didn't see it in the oil, but the dealership tech said it was there.
If you don't have either of those conditions, run a compression check on all cylinders. Bad head gasket will show up as low compression in one or more adjacent cylinders.
If compression is ok and equal in all cylinders, and there is no coolant in the oil and vice versa look for coolant leak at intake manifold allowing coolant to enter one or more cylinders.
Oh yeah! One more question! Are you actually loosing any coolant?
Yeah, was having coolant issues (running hot) for about the past month. No white smoke, just heating issues. It was running about 206 on the highway. I flushed the entire system, then it blew a radiator hose, then the throttle body hose went. I replaced most of the hoses and the water pump. Was still losing coolant, but had stopped running hot. I took it into the dealership when I saw the white smoke. Only had about less than 30 miles on it with the white smoke. It was cold that morning and thought it was just the exhaust warming up.
I own the 2 (big red) service Chevy manuals, but don't know if I can tackle this big a job. :eek:
Gonna call around tomorrow. :cheers:
Heya Jack
Sorry i am getting in on this late...but have you actually found evidence of oil scum in the radiator or frothing of coolant on the dipstick? Didn't see where that was mentioned!
I didn't see any scum in the radiator. Clean as a whistle. I also didn't see it in the oil, but the dealership tech said it was there.
If you don't have either of those conditions, run a compression check on all cylinders. Bad head gasket will show up as low compression in one or more adjacent cylinders.
If compression is ok and equal in all cylinders, and there is no coolant in the oil and vice versa look for coolant leak at intake manifold allowing coolant to enter one or more cylinders.
Oh yeah! One more question! Are you actually loosing any coolant?
Yeah, was having coolant issues (running hot) for about the past month. No white smoke, just heating issues. It was running about 206 on the highway. I flushed the entire system, then it blew a radiator hose, then the throttle body hose went. I replaced most of the hoses and the water pump. Was still losing coolant, but had stopped running hot. I took it into the dealership when I saw the white smoke. Only had about less than 30 miles on it with the white smoke. It was cold that morning and thought it was just the exhaust warming up.
I own the 2 (big red) service Chevy manuals, but don't know if I can tackle this big a job. :eek:
Gonna call around tomorrow. :cheers:
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 902
Likes: 0
From: Glen Allen, VA
CI 3-4-6-8-9 Veteran
Re: Dealer recommending replacing engine...need advice (TimC)
Oh, and when I said it was running hot. It never got that hot. It was just running 210 or so on the highway when before it was running 196 or so. Don't want to give the impression it was up in the 260 range. I had planned on pulling the radiator and cleaning or replacing that this past weekend before the white smoke came out on Friday. :crazy:
I would run the heat/ac to keep it from even climbing to 230 where the fan cuts on. :lol:
Been a coolant nightmare for the past month.
[Modified by TimC, 9:08 PM 4/5/2004]
I would run the heat/ac to keep it from even climbing to 230 where the fan cuts on. :lol:
Been a coolant nightmare for the past month.
[Modified by TimC, 9:08 PM 4/5/2004]