I've got 87 tpi retrofitted into a 78. New accel injectors, painless wiring harness, new mass air flow sensor, hypertech chip, msd 45psi fuel pump, headers, all on one of gm's brand new crate motors. My egr valve is disconnected, as is the lockup transmission part of the harness. My 02 sensor is not hooked up, but i'm sure thats not it. The motor cranks, i get power to the computer, including during spark. I jet pulse to the injectors, i get spark. The engine turns over and fires once or twice, but just never gets going. Its not my fuel system, its at 45psi with fresh premium. Could it be a pressure regulator or a problem with the rail? Its not my oil pressure switch, its brand new from summit, and i've even bypassed it and it still doesn't work. About a month ago i could get the motor to fire after much playing with the gas pedal, it ran absolutely terribly. I changed to these accel injectors and it ran much better, but still had difficulty starting. Its been sitting for about 2 weeks since then and now all it does is spit at me. Any thoughts?

Oh yea, i pulled a spark plug and turned the motor over, air came out the cylinder, so i've got compression, but there was no liquid gas in the charge.

THanks, Mike Cook

 

Check spark timing when you are cranking. You say the injectors are pulsed. How did you determine this? Try spraying some starter fluid into the MAF when cranking and see if the engine will run for a short period. This will prove you are not getting fuel. Are any error codes stored in the ECM? You will probably have to get a scanner to see what is happening during cranking to determine why it isn't starting.

 

I"ve tried it with the distributor in about 50 different locations, no go. I've even taken it out and put it back in 180 off to see if that did anything. Natta. I checked my injectors by plugging a test light into the injector socket, it flashed with pulse. No codes are stored in the computer. Just 12, which is all clear.

 

Need more info. Was this engine running prior to installing? Were the valves adjusted or messed with? Tell us more.

 

i picked up the motor from the chevy dealer 2 months ago, it literally went from the crate, into the car. I didn't touch any of the valves.

 

When you changed injectors-is it possible you inadvertly left an O ring from the old injectors in? Playing with the gas pedal to get it to start really sounds like a faulty injector ;) Does it fire up when you hold the gas pedal to the floor-that would to me atleast confirm my thoughts.

 

Playing with the gas pedal got the car to start using the old injectors, the ones off the 87 tpi unit. If you hold the pedal to the floor with the new injectors it doesn't even cough. It started once using the accel injectors about a week ago. It didn't require playing with the throttle and it ran considerable better than with the stock injectors, but it still wasn't running right. It stayed alive for about 5 minutes, died out, and has done nothing but cough for me since then.


[Modified by i885744, 6:48 PM 5/7/2004]

 

the accel injectors were pretty darn difficult to get installed to the fuel rail, required alot of force and twisting and turning. I suppose it is possible the o-rings are stuck in the fuel rail.

 

Let's start at the beginning.

What engine is it?

What ECM are you running?

What PROM is in it?

What distributor and module?

What MAF sensor?

TPS set correctly? What about the IAC?

Detail the procedure you went through is setting the initial ignition timing.

Have you verified the lifter preload is correct?

Jake


[Modified by JAKE, 8:39 PM 5/7/2004]

 

The regular ole gm crate 350, non ho, the low hp model.

87 Camaro (the injection setup is off a camaro) ecu 1227165 / 16198259

Prom: 16068654 Replaced when i bought the hypertech chip. I have both new and old.

Distributor is the small Tuned port injection hei distributor, the one that has 2 small connectors instead of 1 big one, external hei coil.

mass air flow is the rebuild bosch unit they sell on the corvette mall, less than a month old, Sensor # 14094712

TPS reads .5 volts from the proper terminals.

Can't get the motor to run long enough to adjust the idle air, makes no difference if i keep my foot on the pedal slightly, or full throttle.

To set initial timing, with the driver's valve cover off watch the #1 intake valve go down, come back up, ensuring its the compression stroke, turn the motor over until tdc on the balancer. With cap off the distributor insert the distributor into its place, make note of where the rotor is pointed. Put the cap on, put plug 1 right where the rotor is pointed and go around 18436572 clockwise. I've played with the timing a bit to try and get it to start. I've even pulled the dist and rotated it 180 degrees to see if that made any difference, it didn't even give me the normal coughing, so i put it back.

I've never even heard the term lifter preload. They're the new gm non adjustable stampted rocker arms.

 

Is the wire harness from a corvette or camero? Is the chip for a corvette or camero? There are injector wiring differences between f-bodies and corvettes with the 165ecm. I noticed this when I switched to the 165ecm and compared the wiring diagrams between the two cars.


[Modified by Bluevette85, 12:49 AM 5/8/2004]

 

harenss is a painless performance products universal kit. The hypertech chip i'm using is for a 350cid motor, the difference between the camaro and vette chips are the camaro is for a 305. I"m absolutely positive its not the chip.

 

I would connect the O2 sensor otherwise you'll never go into close loop.

Does the chip you're using have the right fuel injector constant programmed in it for your injectors?

 

Okay, for the engine to start and run it needs some amount of timing advance dialed in. In other words, the plug must fire BEFORE the piston reaches Top Dead Center (TDC).

6 degrees is the stock setting, but it will start and run with much more than that, even 12, 14 or more. You'll probably get a lot of ping and knock retard at the higher settings, but at least it will fire and run enabling you to set the initial.

If you set it too far advanced, the engine will let you know because it will be hard to crank (it'll turn over one turn or so, then stop, then maybe turn over again one time, then stop).

If it's not advanced enough while running, the headers/exhaust will turn a nice cherry red color and the underhood heat will sky-rocket.

If you have the mark on the harmonic damper aligned with the ZERO mark on the timing chain cover timing tab AND have the rotor tip pointed at the #1 spark plug terminal, you have NO timing advance.

Engine won't start and run that way.

All you need to do is re-position the mark on the harmonic damper to align with 6 to 10 degrees advance BTDC, leave the rotor tip pointed at the #1 distributor cap terminal and, if all else is well, it will fire and run.

I just went through this same thing with another Forum member who was having the same "No Start" problem by not dialing in any timing advance. When he followed my advice, it fired right up.

You can then use the correct timing procedure to set the initial timing with your timing light.

The 165 ECM controls the ignition timing after the engine has fired. It takes over all the ignition timing chores based on the values programmed into the PROM. It will only do this, however, if the EST connector is properly plugged in and the circuit to the ECM is functioning.

I'm not sure if you have the correct distributor though. Mine calls for a 7 pin module under the cap and an internal coil which is also in the cap. I don't know whether a different module and a external coil will work without other wiring changes.

Try giving the engine some timing advance first. May solve the problem.

Jake


[Modified by JAKE, 6:15 PM 5/8/2004]


[Modified by JAKE, 5:05 PM 5/9/2004]