CC 224/230 average HP/TQ
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 9
From: N.E. WA
CC 224/230 average HP/TQ
Just curious what others have gotten out of their 224/230 setup with average mods such as: ported heads, exhaust, tb, and tuning. Specify some of the major mods on your car. I'm not looking for who has the most, just a good number to shoot for. Please share 1/4 mile times as well please. Thanks!
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 304
Likes: 1
From: beaverton oregon
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (ANTI VENOM)
FWIW, this is the cam I'll be putting in. Phil @ Advance Induction says I should be looking at 410hp/365torque flywheel when all is said and done(ported heads, 224/230 camshaft, 1.6 rollers, exhaust)
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,490
Likes: 2
From: Oviedo FL
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (TankerVette)
I too went with a CC 224/230 grind in my 383 but it is not off the shelf. It has .605"/.622" lift at .050" w/1.6 RR's, and 113 lsa.
My engine builder is in the middle of the tune right now on an engine dyno. Will let you know the numbers we get with it, as well as what it dyno's to the rear wheels.
Mike
My engine builder is in the middle of the tune right now on an engine dyno. Will let you know the numbers we get with it, as well as what it dyno's to the rear wheels.
Mike
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 9
From: N.E. WA
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (93Quasar)
I haven't had mine on a dyno yet, and the best I've done at the track with this car on street tires is:
12.5 @ 111mph with a 1.9 60ft. (first time out with this car)
lift at the time was .503 and .510 with 1.5's.
I am using a 2400 stall and 3.33 gears. My car is not set up for the drag stip, but I think the car should be doing better. I'm not big on 1/4 mile times, because I believe that there are way to many variables to be compared side by side unless we raced side by side. I'm still interested in what others are doing.
12.5 @ 111mph with a 1.9 60ft. (first time out with this car)
lift at the time was .503 and .510 with 1.5's.
I am using a 2400 stall and 3.33 gears. My car is not set up for the drag stip, but I think the car should be doing better. I'm not big on 1/4 mile times, because I believe that there are way to many variables to be compared side by side unless we raced side by side. I'm still interested in what others are doing.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 4
From: Hinckley Ohio
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (ANTI VENOM)
I did 365hp/325lb-ft on my LT4. 350 ci, head work, 58mm TB, electric water pump.
Still a little more in her when I get A/F tweaked.
I am not real happy with driveability issues, still working on that. Problem is below about 1700 rpm. Cruising at about 65+ I get about 26 mpg (4.10 gears).
Just curious how "driveable" you can get?? First tune, I got a lot of surging, second tune is more like "missing"......above about 1700 it smooths out. I have new oxygen sensors on the way to see if this contributing to my problems.
Still a little more in her when I get A/F tweaked.
I am not real happy with driveability issues, still working on that. Problem is below about 1700 rpm. Cruising at about 65+ I get about 26 mpg (4.10 gears).
Just curious how "driveable" you can get?? First tune, I got a lot of surging, second tune is more like "missing"......above about 1700 it smooths out. I have new oxygen sensors on the way to see if this contributing to my problems.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 9
From: N.E. WA
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (LT4BUD)
It looks like the cam basically pulled all the way to 6500! I have not been taking mine that high. My tranny is still shifting around 5600 by itself. I've got to get it on a dyno to see if mine is dropping off after 6k. As far as driveability, I did have some of the "missing" or "surging" under 1800 rpm. I mostly noticed it when my converter locked up too early under very light throttle. I raised the MPH that my converter locks up and that seemed to help out alot. With your gears, I'm suprised that you are having the surging problems. My friend runs the 224/236 cam and had some issues with 3.73 gears, but the 4.10's are a bit better. It will still buck alittle in a parking lot in 1st gear if you let it idle along. I expect more from this cam. I was also hoping that we could all share some tuning info as far as timing goes as well.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 4
From: Hinckley Ohio
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (ANTI VENOM)
HP peak was right at 6400. I have rev limit set at 6700, but the dyno operator was manually letting up at 6500.
I have stock bottom end, so I am nervous about high rpm's, but I think I am going to raise the rev limit to maybe 6900 and then shift maybe 6700. If the hp curve goes they way it looks like it would, the shift point should probably be even a little higher, but I don't want to blow this engine.
BTW I am running 1.6 rockers.
I have stock bottom end, so I am nervous about high rpm's, but I think I am going to raise the rev limit to maybe 6900 and then shift maybe 6700. If the hp curve goes they way it looks like it would, the shift point should probably be even a little higher, but I don't want to blow this engine.
BTW I am running 1.6 rockers.
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Drifting
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 0
From: Colleyville Texas
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (ANTI VENOM)
Went with the 230/236 in my 396. The 224/230 is also a good cam. Would have used that cam in my 350. 370-380RWHP seems realistic for that cam in a fully modded 350. The XE cams have more top end power above 5800 RPM's.
Dyno is my 396 with the 230/236 and cats. Running now with off roads.
Dyno is my 396 with the 230/236 and cats. Running now with off roads.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 9
From: N.E. WA
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (Red Rocket)
I thought that there would be more of us out there that are running this "little" cam. From what I am hearing so far, I will probably continue to be disapointed with this cam. I would've thought a solid 370rwhp out of a 350 would be doable.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,490
Likes: 2
From: Oviedo FL
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (ANTI VENOM)
Depends on the heads. They had better flow 280 - 300 cfm minimum at .550" lift if you are looking for 370 to the rear wheel. That's just a guess but I bet it's ballpark.
Mike
Mike
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
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From: Hinckley Ohio
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (ANTI VENOM)
My average has been 365hp, not a solid 370, but only off by a few and the A/F is still not optimum......did 372hp on one pull...
Torque is a little low, but quite a flat broad curve.....need to get to the track and see where it is at...really feels strong.......traction will be poor at the strip on street tires
Before I went with this cam I posted and for some reason this is not a very widely used cam with C4 people, .......
I felt it would be the "hotter" hot cam
Torque is a little low, but quite a flat broad curve.....need to get to the track and see where it is at...really feels strong.......traction will be poor at the strip on street tires
Before I went with this cam I posted and for some reason this is not a very widely used cam with C4 people, .......
I felt it would be the "hotter" hot cam
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 838
Likes: 2
From: Out by the bridge again, TampaBay
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (ANTI VENOM)
I've only dyno'd in hot weather and have consistently put down 360-363 RWHP with this cam. At 6300 the HP curve is still going up at a pretty steep rate. This is through an auto w/3000 stall converter and a dana 44 rear with 11" ZR1 wheels so that will eat up a little also. My mods are all in my sig.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 9
From: N.E. WA
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (Half Fast)
Half Fast, that is about what I would expect for HP. I think that would be a pretty realistic goal. I am running the "503" cam with .553/.561 lift on a 112 LSA. I too have a stall and a D44. Your quarter mile times are about what I think I should see also. For one, I may have been shifting too soon. I did not realize that some people are still making power over 6200-6300 with this cam. Comp says peak power is at about 5800!!! I sure would like to see your timing tables. I am only running a max of 32 degree's right now. I've tried more, but get to much knock. I was hoping that TJWONG would get his dyno running soon, but it may still take some time. I've seen guys on the camaro board running as much as 375 rwhp with a 350, but that is about it. That was a stick car too.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 4
From: Hinckley Ohio
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (Half Fast)
Half Fast: How does your dyno curve compare to mine???? I peaked around 365, but that doesn't tell the whole story.
I also see you cam is on 114LSA.....are you sure???
I am using CompCams 07-503-12
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Se...umber=07-503-8
I see we have different lifts.....so there is more than one cam with224/230 durations??
[Modified by LT4BUD, 8:06 PM 6/23/2004]
I also see you cam is on 114LSA.....are you sure???
I am using CompCams 07-503-12
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Se...umber=07-503-8
I see we have different lifts.....so there is more than one cam with224/230 durations??
[Modified by LT4BUD, 8:06 PM 6/23/2004]
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 9
From: N.E. WA
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (LT4BUD)
I'm sure there are "customs" that are similar, but the lift is .335/.340 at the cam.
1.5rr = 503/510
1.6rr = 536/544
1.65r = 553/561
1.7rr = 570/578
You can also run a split RR combo.
1.5rr = 503/510
1.6rr = 536/544
1.65r = 553/561
1.7rr = 570/578
You can also run a split RR combo.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,490
Likes: 2
From: Oviedo FL
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (LT4BUD)
I see we have different lifts.....so there is more than one cam with224/230 durations??
This is going in a 383 btw, and is currently being tuned on an engine dyno as we speak. It should be done in the next couple of days, and I will post the numbers when I get them.
Mike
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (ANTI VENOM)
I know you guys aren't gonna want to hear it, but it looks like the Hot Cam is still a better choice for the 350. The peak numbers are about the same and is has more low end. The Hot Cam has a 112 lobe sep which means more overlap, but this is offset by the bigger duration of the 224/230.
I'm pretty much convinced that assuming your heads are good you want to run as much lift as possible on a small duration. This combination gives you the best power across the board. Now granted the "LT4 Hot Cam" only comes in one lift variety, .525, which is somewhat small for a killer set of heads. That leaves you with the higher ratio rocker option. Of course you can always get a custom cam. Personally if I was going for a custom cam I'd look at a 218/228 and shoot for .600 lift with 1.5 rockers if at all possible. That might would result in too steep a ramp rate though.
Just my $.02, lift is better than duration, within reason of course.
I'm pretty much convinced that assuming your heads are good you want to run as much lift as possible on a small duration. This combination gives you the best power across the board. Now granted the "LT4 Hot Cam" only comes in one lift variety, .525, which is somewhat small for a killer set of heads. That leaves you with the higher ratio rocker option. Of course you can always get a custom cam. Personally if I was going for a custom cam I'd look at a 218/228 and shoot for .600 lift with 1.5 rockers if at all possible. That might would result in too steep a ramp rate though.
Just my $.02, lift is better than duration, within reason of course.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 4
From: Hinckley Ohio
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (Nathan Plemons)
Here is the flow data for my heads:
Lift Intake Exhaust
0.1 62.5 50
0.2 133 102
0.3 185 139
0.4 228 176
0.5 261 202
0.55 270 208
0.6 273 214
0.65 267 219
So actually a hot cam at .525 lift would NOT take advantage of the max flow capacity of these heads.
You need to have flow data to evaluate how much lift is good. Don't just quess and say bigger is better.
Interesting the format is lost here, but on the reply it is still formatted as in my spreadsheeet???? Hope you can figure out the table from what is here.
[Modified by LT4BUD, 7:46 AM 6/24/2004]
[Modified by LT4BUD, 7:51 AM 6/24/2004]
Lift Intake Exhaust
0.1 62.5 50
0.2 133 102
0.3 185 139
0.4 228 176
0.5 261 202
0.55 270 208
0.6 273 214
0.65 267 219
So actually a hot cam at .525 lift would NOT take advantage of the max flow capacity of these heads.
You need to have flow data to evaluate how much lift is good. Don't just quess and say bigger is better.
Interesting the format is lost here, but on the reply it is still formatted as in my spreadsheeet???? Hope you can figure out the table from what is here.
[Modified by LT4BUD, 7:46 AM 6/24/2004]
[Modified by LT4BUD, 7:51 AM 6/24/2004]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 838
Likes: 2
From: Out by the bridge again, TampaBay
Re: CC 224/230 average HP/TQ (LT4BUD)
Mine was done custom on a 114LSA, same lobes as the catalog part 503. As far as going over .550 lift it's essentially worthless. I have yet to see any LT1/4 heads done by anybody that don't stall out over .550 lift. What you do want is heads with really good mid lift flow numbers as that is where most of the time is spent in valve events. So without going over .550 lift the other way to go is duration. This all applies to a stock cube motor when you go larger or to aftermarket heads things change again.