Help!! A new block or get a retro roller setup??
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 875
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From: Louisville KY
Help!! A new block or get a retro roller setup??
Hey, I have a 2 bolt main 84 block that I can have line bored right now and put a retro fit roller setup and the parts in my signature in it. Or.............should i find a later model 4 bolt main that came originally fitted with a roller setup and throw it all in there?? If i do go with a different block, where is a good place to get one and what do i need to consider when building it i.e. (water pump flow same as stock, will my dart heads fit...etc.). I don't know that much about blocks that came stock with a roller setup. Also, of the two cams i'm lookin at what should i choose, or is there a better alternative. The car will be a daily driver but also a weekend warrior at the track. Thanks for any input.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Athens AL
C7 of the Year - Unmodified Finalist 2021
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Re: Help!! A new block or get a retro roller setup?? (kpforce1)
For a street engine, it wont make much difference.
But from looking at your sig, and if you really plan to beat this engine at the track, it might be worthwhile to go to a 4-bolt roller block.
All the accessories and such will switch over, WP and heads will all work. Only real difference is valvetrain parts.
But from looking at your sig, and if you really plan to beat this engine at the track, it might be worthwhile to go to a 4-bolt roller block.
All the accessories and such will switch over, WP and heads will all work. Only real difference is valvetrain parts.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,189
Likes: 2
From: Austin TX
Re: Help!! A new block or get a retro roller setup?? (kpforce1)
If you switch to a later model roller block you will also need to get
the adaptor that will take a two piece rear main seal and then you
can use your existing crank and flywheel (which you already have
balanced).
Dan
the adaptor that will take a two piece rear main seal and then you
can use your existing crank and flywheel (which you already have
balanced).
Dan
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 33
From: The Top of Utah
Re: Help!! A new block or get a retro roller setup?? (kpforce1)
Factory roller blocks came out in 1987. In 1986 the General switched to a one piece rear seal. If you go to a roller block you will have to go to the late crank and flywheel or flexplate. There IS an adaptor available to keep your existing crank, but I believe it's about a hundred bucks. Does your old block need to be align bored? The new one will need to be checked. I see that you are sticking with 4.000" pistons. If your block doesn't need to be bored, you can stick with the factory forged, flat top pistons and save a bundle on machining and parts. Just pick heads that will get you in the ball park, compression wise, with the flat tops. You can convert your block to take OE, V6, roller lifters and save another bundle over the cost of the retro lifters. A little careful planning ahead of time can payoff, BIG. Good luck, and...
RACE ON!!!
RACE ON!!!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 875
Likes: 0
From: Louisville KY
Re: Help!! A new block or get a retro roller setup?? (danno85)
Well, you just pointed out something i didn't think of at all. The crank came out of a 4 bolt main block. Guess i might as well go to the later 4 bolt roller block unless they make a 4 bolt adapter for a 2 bolt main (stupid anyway). When I get all of this together how much hp and what ET's do you think I will see with a 3000 stall and stock D36 (D44 and 3:73 gears comming soon)? You guys and this forum are awesome!!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
Re: Help!! A new block or get a retro roller setup?? (kpforce1)
There are a lot of unknowns here.
First, finding a 4 bolt block may not be all that easy unless you go to GM, Dart, etc. and pay through the nose for a new one.
Second, if you do happen to find one in the wrecking yard - which is the most likely place to find one - it's probably going to need a lot of machine work. It'll probably be a high mileage block and will need to be:
Tanked, checked for cracks, bored, honed, decked, line-honed, new cam bearings, freeze plugs, etc. This is going to run up in the $
The two bolt block you have is a better all-around deal, especially if you add four bolt caps to the center three mains. The two bolt blocks converted to 4 bolt are the more desirable blocks anyway.
When you start mixing parts (non-roller Vs roller; one piece rear main seal Vs two piece, etc) you open a can of worms. Sure, it can be done, but the complexity of the swap goes up the more mixing and matching you do.
KISS is the rule to follow.
Jake
First, finding a 4 bolt block may not be all that easy unless you go to GM, Dart, etc. and pay through the nose for a new one.
Second, if you do happen to find one in the wrecking yard - which is the most likely place to find one - it's probably going to need a lot of machine work. It'll probably be a high mileage block and will need to be:
Tanked, checked for cracks, bored, honed, decked, line-honed, new cam bearings, freeze plugs, etc. This is going to run up in the $
The two bolt block you have is a better all-around deal, especially if you add four bolt caps to the center three mains. The two bolt blocks converted to 4 bolt are the more desirable blocks anyway.
When you start mixing parts (non-roller Vs roller; one piece rear main seal Vs two piece, etc) you open a can of worms. Sure, it can be done, but the complexity of the swap goes up the more mixing and matching you do.
KISS is the rule to follow.
Jake
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Help!! A new block or get a retro roller setup?? (kpforce1)
If all those engine parts are well matched and you slap on a set of ET Streets you should be able to dip into high 11s on a good day (i.e. a DA of --). Guys have done that with a 350 cid in a Vette.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 33
From: The Top of Utah
Re: Help!! A new block or get a retro roller setup?? (kpforce1)
Well, you just pointed out something i didn't think of at all. The crank came out of a 4 bolt main block. Guess i might as well go to the later 4 bolt roller block unless they make a 4 bolt adapter for a 2 bolt main (stupid anyway).
RACE ON!!!
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Racer
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 276
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From: Springboro OH
Re: Help!! A new block or get a retro roller setup?? (CFI-EFI)
Have the block machined for the splayed 4 bolt caps if you are concerned about having a 4 bolt. I built the motor for my 80 Z-28 and used the original block with a full roller set up, 5000 + miles and way to many 6500 RPM shifts (I gotta stop that ) and she runs just fine.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 875
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From: Louisville KY
Re: Help!! A new block or get a retro roller setup?? (joalyons)
Thanks for all of the info guys! I've decided to use my 2 bolt block and go with the retro fit roller lifters. Any idea as to wich ones to get? I'm thinking crane retro lifters, I haven't heard negative info on those like the comp version.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
Re: Help!! A new block or get a retro roller setup?? (CFI-EFI)
. The advantage of a 2 bolt being stronger than the 4 bolt, only applies to the 4.125" (400 cid) bore blocks.
RACE ON!!!
RACE ON!!!
Given the choice, I'd go with a 2 bolt block and add four bolt caps with splayed outer bolts. I'd also go with cast iron cap rather than steel. They'd be a heck of a lot easier to find, too.
Jake
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
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From: The Top of Utah
Re: Help!! A new block or get a retro roller setup?? (JAKE)
Most 4" bore, 4 bolt, blocks are the same block as the 2 bolt. The common 70's and first half 80's, 010 casting number blocks were made in both 2 and 4 bolt mains.
I think what you've heard applies to the 4.125" blocks. The 4 bolt versions have thinner, weaker main bearing webs. In the 4.125" blocks, the stock 2 bolt is stronger than the 4 bolt. The 2 bolt block is stronger in the first place. Stock 4 bolt caps added to the 2 bolt block is stronger, still, and splayed 4 bolt caps on a 2 bolt block is the strongest, for 4.125" bore, production blocks. For serious work, stay away for a production, 4.125" bore 4 bolt block.
RACE ON!!!
I think what you've heard applies to the 4.125" blocks. The 4 bolt versions have thinner, weaker main bearing webs. In the 4.125" blocks, the stock 2 bolt is stronger than the 4 bolt. The 2 bolt block is stronger in the first place. Stock 4 bolt caps added to the 2 bolt block is stronger, still, and splayed 4 bolt caps on a 2 bolt block is the strongest, for 4.125" bore, production blocks. For serious work, stay away for a production, 4.125" bore 4 bolt block.
RACE ON!!!
