Not understanding the Mini-Ram! Help me out
Thread Starter
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From: Granby, MA
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Not understanding the Mini-Ram! Help me out
Ok just got done looking and reading all about TPIS's Mini-Ram....and from what Iam understanding...and please correct me if Iam wrong....but they are claiming for $900 bucks this manifold is going to give a stock TPI car 75-95 more horsepower. And there logic behind the whole thing is that fact that TPI runners are too big. Well seeing that there are not a lot of people running the Mini-Ram and talking bout them....Iam curious....could these numbers be true? and if so....how come more people aren't buying and throwing these on? Instead I hear of lots of members going the superram route....HOWEVER...not many just do the superram on a stock engine....at least I haven't heard of any...usually its only after a major rebuild....
so bottom line is .....whats up with this Mini-Ram thing....can adding 75 extra horses be this easy? and whats the difference between this and the Superram?
thanks guys....oh yeh....here's a copy paste from TPIS's site in which I read bout the Mini-Ram.
Mini-Ram Intake Manifold
*
This fabulous one-piece casting is ideal for the serious car nut. If used as a replacement over a stock Tuned Port intake, on a mild 350ci motor, you will see a 75-95+ HP gain. If you build the motor on the mild side, i.e. small cam and some porting, stroker motor, 100-125+ HP,over the stock or modified TPI intake is very possible. If you go on the wild side you will be able to exceed any single four barrel power numbers, all with greater driveability and economy.
Installs on existing TPI vehicles with just our Fuel Rail Kit and Level VI Prom. Use the Mini-Ram to replace and out-perform any carbureted system.
We have been driving this manifold for over ten years. It has wonderful throttle response, delivers more torque from 2000 to 2700 RPM than a stock or modified TPI, and gives a great rush of power from 3500 RPM to 6500 RPM.
The reason the TPI intake is so restrictive is due to its intake runner length, which is 17 inches long! Your typical carburator intake is about 5-6 inches long, and our Mini-Ram intake is 3 inches long. The shorter the runner the higher the peak RPM, the higher the peak RPM, the higher the HP number. This is why it makes so much more power.
On a built 350 with a bigger: base manifold, runners, ported plenum, 52mm T/B, and a ZZ-9 cam, peak HP is 380 at 4750 RPM,and peak torque will be 460lbs/ft, Put a Mini-Ram on the same motor, and peak HP will be 450 at 6000 RPM, with 430lbs/ft of torque. Sure you lose some torque, but you will still have a hard time hooking up, so the torque loss is not an issue. Over a stock TPI you would see easily over 100 more HP. If we do the same combo with a 383 the modified TPI would only be at 400HP at 4500 RPM, and 515lbs/ft of torque, basically a tow truck motor, all torque, and no RPM or top end. Put a Mini-Ram on and you will see 480HP at 5800 RPM, with 490 lbs/ft of toque, and a lot flatter toque curve, over a TPI long runner intake. And once again you will still have trouble hooking up.
This same runner concept is why the LT1 motors made 60 more HP over the TPI motors out of the box. If you look at stock TPI aluminum head flow numbers, and compare them to stock LT1 aluminum head flow numbers, you will see little difference, also the cam specs are very similar, and the throttle bodies, and cubic inches are the same. So why does the LT1 make more power? Simple, intake runner length, is the main difference, shorter runner more RPM, and RPM is HP. If GM put a 17 inch long intake runner on the LT1 motor, the numbers would be the same as the TPI motors.
so bottom line is .....whats up with this Mini-Ram thing....can adding 75 extra horses be this easy? and whats the difference between this and the Superram?
thanks guys....oh yeh....here's a copy paste from TPIS's site in which I read bout the Mini-Ram.
Mini-Ram Intake Manifold
*
This fabulous one-piece casting is ideal for the serious car nut. If used as a replacement over a stock Tuned Port intake, on a mild 350ci motor, you will see a 75-95+ HP gain. If you build the motor on the mild side, i.e. small cam and some porting, stroker motor, 100-125+ HP,over the stock or modified TPI intake is very possible. If you go on the wild side you will be able to exceed any single four barrel power numbers, all with greater driveability and economy.
Installs on existing TPI vehicles with just our Fuel Rail Kit and Level VI Prom. Use the Mini-Ram to replace and out-perform any carbureted system.
We have been driving this manifold for over ten years. It has wonderful throttle response, delivers more torque from 2000 to 2700 RPM than a stock or modified TPI, and gives a great rush of power from 3500 RPM to 6500 RPM.
The reason the TPI intake is so restrictive is due to its intake runner length, which is 17 inches long! Your typical carburator intake is about 5-6 inches long, and our Mini-Ram intake is 3 inches long. The shorter the runner the higher the peak RPM, the higher the peak RPM, the higher the HP number. This is why it makes so much more power.
On a built 350 with a bigger: base manifold, runners, ported plenum, 52mm T/B, and a ZZ-9 cam, peak HP is 380 at 4750 RPM,and peak torque will be 460lbs/ft, Put a Mini-Ram on the same motor, and peak HP will be 450 at 6000 RPM, with 430lbs/ft of torque. Sure you lose some torque, but you will still have a hard time hooking up, so the torque loss is not an issue. Over a stock TPI you would see easily over 100 more HP. If we do the same combo with a 383 the modified TPI would only be at 400HP at 4500 RPM, and 515lbs/ft of torque, basically a tow truck motor, all torque, and no RPM or top end. Put a Mini-Ram on and you will see 480HP at 5800 RPM, with 490 lbs/ft of toque, and a lot flatter toque curve, over a TPI long runner intake. And once again you will still have trouble hooking up.
This same runner concept is why the LT1 motors made 60 more HP over the TPI motors out of the box. If you look at stock TPI aluminum head flow numbers, and compare them to stock LT1 aluminum head flow numbers, you will see little difference, also the cam specs are very similar, and the throttle bodies, and cubic inches are the same. So why does the LT1 make more power? Simple, intake runner length, is the main difference, shorter runner more RPM, and RPM is HP. If GM put a 17 inch long intake runner on the LT1 motor, the numbers would be the same as the TPI motors.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,694
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From: Less Talk, More WOT | Houston TX
I think the gain on the miniram is overrated a bit, and also the gain that they do rate it at is a peak gain which will be somewhere around 6500 rpm or so....far past the tpi intake they are comparing it to has fallen flat on its face...somewhere I wouldnt want to take my stock L98 rotating assembly 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Less Talk, More WOT | Houston TX
Originally Posted by 6spd
i would like to know also but from what i am told is the miniram is better for 6spd cars?? don't know how true it is??
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Boston, MA
Originally Posted by XtremeVette
Ok just got done looking and reading all about TPIS's Mini-Ram....and from what Iam understanding...and please correct me if Iam wrong....but they are claiming for $900 bucks this manifold is going to give a stock TPI car 75-95 more horsepower.
Now looking at that graph you can see that at 6000 or 6500 RPM there is going to be nearly nothing for HP being made anymore. The miniram using their wording would instead give you +75-90 at that same 6500. This is of course if you match it properly with the other components needed. The trade-off is that you might see a drop in the lower end. Especially if you didn't swap the cam etc.
Thread Starter
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From: Granby, MA
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ummmmm ok? Scorp...am I reading your chart right?
Scorp....ok Iam following your thoughts on the Mini-Ram....I got ya.....
but...ummmmmmm is your chart right?
Looks to me that your top horsepower is at 210? is that it? oh wait....is that actually RWHP? or is that crank......
but...ummmmmmm is your chart right?
Looks to me that your top horsepower is at 210? is that it? oh wait....is that actually RWHP? or is that crank......
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
I think you would benefit from a copy of TPIS "Insider Hints" for L98. It has dyno data on their mini-ram vs other setups on various engines.
They present dyno tables that show peak power was up about 73chp upon replacing the stock TPI setup with a mini-ram on an '85 Vette. Gees if I thought I could realy gain that much CHP on my '88 L98 for ~$800 I'd cut the check to them tonight.
According to their dyno data on a 383 the mini-ram not only alows your engine to breath much better up top but also costs little or no low end, down to 2,500rpm anyway.
They present dyno tables that show peak power was up about 73chp upon replacing the stock TPI setup with a mini-ram on an '85 Vette. Gees if I thought I could realy gain that much CHP on my '88 L98 for ~$800 I'd cut the check to them tonight.
According to their dyno data on a 383 the mini-ram not only alows your engine to breath much better up top but also costs little or no low end, down to 2,500rpm anyway.
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From: Athens AL
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I would say the MR is better for manuals, probably better for 6's than 4+3s. Their 75-95 gain # is correct since the L98 makes no power at the RPM they are advertising.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2003
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From: Las Vegas Nevada
Originally Posted by vader86
I would say the MR is better for manuals, probably better for 6's than 4+3s. Their 75-95 gain # is correct since the L98 makes no power at the RPM they are advertising.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Database Error Indiana
Originally Posted by aklim
I doubt it is that cheap. Don't you have to use their fuel rail kit which adds another 400 to the price tag
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Boston, MA
Originally Posted by XtremeVette
but...ummmmmmm is your chart right?
Looks to me that your top horsepower is at 210? is that it? oh wait....is that actually RWHP? or is that crank......
Looks to me that your top horsepower is at 210? is that it? oh wait....is that actually RWHP? or is that crank......
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: Hopkinsville Ky
I always thought TP's couldn't get enough air at higher rpm's and that
was the reason they ran out of HP.But because of long runners they
have a lot of torque.Who would be the person that knew about this?
was the reason they ran out of HP.But because of long runners they
have a lot of torque.Who would be the person that knew about this?
Racer
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 292
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From: Vienna VA
Most advertising is not to be trusted.
I did the TPI to mini ram swap and still feel that it was the best decision for my long term plans. Did my cam and heads at the same time. My observations for my 350 are:
1. Expensive
2. No EGR
3. Much easier to install and work on than the SR and TPI setups
4. Love the shift in power band...I like being able to rev the engine
5. Need more gear on the 350
6. Runs cooler than the TPI and SR setups because of no EGR...helps compensate for reduced mid range power for runner length tuning effect.
7. One of the better manifolds, if you are planning to add cubic inches.
8. Must do a custom chip to take advantage of the shift in power band.
I did the TPI to mini ram swap and still feel that it was the best decision for my long term plans. Did my cam and heads at the same time. My observations for my 350 are:
1. Expensive
2. No EGR
3. Much easier to install and work on than the SR and TPI setups
4. Love the shift in power band...I like being able to rev the engine
5. Need more gear on the 350
6. Runs cooler than the TPI and SR setups because of no EGR...helps compensate for reduced mid range power for runner length tuning effect.
7. One of the better manifolds, if you are planning to add cubic inches.
8. Must do a custom chip to take advantage of the shift in power band.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
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From: Indianapolis IN
The main thing I noticed when switching to the MR is that once you hit @ 4500rpm, the car literally launches for as long as your bottom end can take it.
When driving on the interstate at 60-70mph, when I nail it, it is really pretty unbeliveable in the way the car takes off.
I will likely put 3.73 rear gear in my car this winter and I think it will complete the package nicely. TPIS will tell you that you need at least 3.73's or there abouts to take advantage of the MR.
When driving on the interstate at 60-70mph, when I nail it, it is really pretty unbeliveable in the way the car takes off.
I will likely put 3.73 rear gear in my car this winter and I think it will complete the package nicely. TPIS will tell you that you need at least 3.73's or there abouts to take advantage of the MR.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Athens AL
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Originally Posted by Southern Comfort
So what good would it do an automatic? I would suspect it would give some substantial HP gain
You also need alot of rear gear for a good MR setup, and that means youll have to upgrade the rear end in an automatic.
In an automatic, youll need a higher stall TC as well.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Castro Valley Calif.
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '26
The one issue that's been overlooked in this thread is emissions compliance. That's a concern for me, so I went with the Superram. If I'da had my 'druthers, I'd have done miniram in a heartbeat, big CID torque and useable HP at higher RPMs is a tough combo to beat.....check out LD85's numbers and description of performance...... pretty impressive stuff
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: rome ny
the miniram will work good with either a standard or auto with the right gears. also for it to function any higher than 5300 rpm's you will need a cam change. a l98 motor with miniram,zz9 cam, stock heads, and headers will make 375 fwhp at 500 rpm's and 400 tq at 4000. with ported vette heads it will make 50 hp more at 6000 rpms's.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Boston, MA
Something else to keep in mind. The stock ECM for earlier C4s doesn't even know that 6000 RPM exists! A lot of your tuning capabiliy stops at the 4500 range and then it just uses the last table cell's data for anything higher.
I also recommend that anyone doing a miniram consider some bottom end upgrades due to the longer time spent in higher RPM areas compared to stock.
I also recommend that anyone doing a miniram consider some bottom end upgrades due to the longer time spent in higher RPM areas compared to stock.
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From: Richmond Virginia
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Originally Posted by doc's toy
I always thought TP's couldn't get enough air at higher rpm's and that
was the reason they ran out of HP.But because of long runners they
have a lot of torque.Who would be the person that knew about this?
was the reason they ran out of HP.But because of long runners they
have a lot of torque.Who would be the person that knew about this?