Drag Racing with ZF6....How?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 6
From: NS
Drag Racing with ZF6....How?
I'm curious....
For you drag racers out there running ZF6 transmissions...How do you shift to be as quick as possible?
1. Hold the throttle wide open - clutch - gear - clutch? Use the rev limiter to save the engine?
2. Conventional, release throttle while shifting?
3. Don't use the clutch while shifting, simply blip the throttle?
Also, what kind of HP do you need to get a ZF6 car with 3.45 rear gear down under 13 seconds?
For you drag racers out there running ZF6 transmissions...How do you shift to be as quick as possible?
1. Hold the throttle wide open - clutch - gear - clutch? Use the rev limiter to save the engine?
2. Conventional, release throttle while shifting?
3. Don't use the clutch while shifting, simply blip the throttle?
Also, what kind of HP do you need to get a ZF6 car with 3.45 rear gear down under 13 seconds?
Elite Torch Red Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 57,805
Likes: 23
From: Exit 89 GSP,Lakewood,NJ The Land Of Mojo
Cental/South NJ Events Coordinator
CI 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12 Vet
CI-II Burnout & Drag Champ
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07
Powershift.
I've got mine in the 12's stock, so it won't take much.
I didn't run a 12 in this video, but you can sample my powershifting.
http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/mrm...ovspanuzzo.wmv
I've got mine in the 12's stock, so it won't take much.
I didn't run a 12 in this video, but you can sample my powershifting.
http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/mrm...ovspanuzzo.wmv
Heel & Toe
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Germantown MD
I remember seeing a tech tip relating to power shifting on a Vette or ZF-related web site some time back, but I can't find it right now. As I recall, the tip said to lauch at 3000 rpm in 1st and shift at 6,000-6,300. Be sure to push the clutch all the way in each time. (The tip said that you should always fully depress the clutch, even when driving casually. This keeps the corrosion off of the clutch cylinder walls.)
The tip suggested that you move the seat a little further forward than you normally would for street driving to get better leverage and to avoid fully extending your knee. I think the suggested training was to stand on your right foot and practice hitting the floor with your left foot simultaneouly with a snap of your right-hand fingers. If you can do this 100 time without messing up, you've probably got the timing right.
I've read that most ZF-6 speed failures are actually attributable to improper clutch use and/or maintenance.
Good luck!
The tip suggested that you move the seat a little further forward than you normally would for street driving to get better leverage and to avoid fully extending your knee. I think the suggested training was to stand on your right foot and practice hitting the floor with your left foot simultaneouly with a snap of your right-hand fingers. If you can do this 100 time without messing up, you've probably got the timing right.
I've read that most ZF-6 speed failures are actually attributable to improper clutch use and/or maintenance.
Good luck!
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,030
Likes: 6
From: Maryland
Originally Posted by Atok
I'm curious....
For you drag racers out there running ZF6 transmissions...How do you shift to be as quick as possible?
1. Hold the throttle wide open - clutch - gear - clutch? Use the rev limiter to save the engine?
2. Conventional, release throttle while shifting?
3. Don't use the clutch while shifting, simply blip the throttle?
Also, what kind of HP do you need to get a ZF6 car with 3.45 rear gear down under 13 seconds?
For you drag racers out there running ZF6 transmissions...How do you shift to be as quick as possible?
1. Hold the throttle wide open - clutch - gear - clutch? Use the rev limiter to save the engine?
2. Conventional, release throttle while shifting?
3. Don't use the clutch while shifting, simply blip the throttle?
Also, what kind of HP do you need to get a ZF6 car with 3.45 rear gear down under 13 seconds?
Launch @ 1700-3500 rpm depending on track prep/conditions. Shift out of each gear at 6200 rpm because my dyno sheet shows that I am still making big power up there, curve is not falling down much if at all.
The shift: it is conventional shifting, I think I do back off the throttle a little. As you gain experience/speed, I think you throttle back less if at all.
It's interesting about the tech tip--that describes me exactly. I always bounce the clutch pedal off the floor, and I have the seat moved up when driving the car. I am 6ft 2", and people that I let drive it wonder why the __ I have the seat moved up--it is precisely as described--I always, even for street driving, want lots of leverage on the clutch pedal.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,819
Likes: 0
From: Anytown USA
Originally Posted by sothpaw2
It's interesting about the tech tip--that describes me exactly. I always bounce the clutch pedal off the floor, and I have the seat moved up when driving the car. I am 6ft 2", and people that I let drive it wonder why the __ I have the seat moved up--it is precisely as described--I always, even for street driving, want lots of leverage on the clutch pedal.
Mike
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,672
Likes: 20
From: Lake Wylie SC
Originally Posted by Getzen88
Same with me, i'm 6'1" and i have the seat really far up. when my brother who is 5'11" gets it, he moves it back a good two inches...i just like the control i get with it farther up
Mike
Mike
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Michael S. Palmer
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,772
Likes: 17
From: Indianapolis IN
How are your clutches holding up? What kind do you sub 13 sec. guys have?
I just bought a Dual Friction today, "$ouch$", my stock PP & McLeod Performance went bye bye on my first run last Wednesday.
2000RPM launch, shifted at 5800rpm, then lots of smoke. I'll have some pics by the end of the week.
I just bought a Dual Friction today, "$ouch$", my stock PP & McLeod Performance went bye bye on my first run last Wednesday.
2000RPM launch, shifted at 5800rpm, then lots of smoke. I'll have some pics by the end of the week.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,793
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From: St. Peters MO Sometimes you have to prove yourself by doing alot of killing or alot of dying...
All good tips. I have a 96 LT4 that I launch at 2200rpm. It seems to offer the best in gription and little tire spin. Launching is an artform. It all depends on your touch in rolling into the pedal. I'm not that great at that so I launch at a lot lower RPM.
As far as powershifting... once I'm on her hard... my foot never leaves her ***. You need to get good at the timing of stabbing the clutch kwikly and jerking the gears kwiker. The slower your shifts... the slower your run. Don't let the rev limiter 'save' your motor. No offense... but if you need that to save your motor as you shift... you need to learn how to race first.
It's not real hard to learn... but don't practice on the vette... go to a local Ford dealer and test drive a 6 banger stanger. Run the monkey **** out of it and learn there. Then take what you now know and apply it to the vette. This way you aren't tearing your car up to learn something you can learn by abusing a Ford.
As far as powershifting... once I'm on her hard... my foot never leaves her ***. You need to get good at the timing of stabbing the clutch kwikly and jerking the gears kwiker. The slower your shifts... the slower your run. Don't let the rev limiter 'save' your motor. No offense... but if you need that to save your motor as you shift... you need to learn how to race first.
It's not real hard to learn... but don't practice on the vette... go to a local Ford dealer and test drive a 6 banger stanger. Run the monkey **** out of it and learn there. Then take what you now know and apply it to the vette. This way you aren't tearing your car up to learn something you can learn by abusing a Ford.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 6
From: NS
Originally Posted by kwik_ta
It's not real hard to learn... but don't practice on the vette... go to a local Ford dealer and test drive a 6 banger stanger. Run the monkey **** out of it and learn there. Then take what you now know and apply it to the vette.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,184
Likes: 3
From: Santa Maria, CA
Make real sure the clutch hydraulics are in absolute top shape too.
I granny shift because the previous owner had the CAGS and must have ground the 2-3 synchro and gears pretty good. It binds at that spot sometimes.
I granny shift because the previous owner had the CAGS and must have ground the 2-3 synchro and gears pretty good. It binds at that spot sometimes.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,184
Likes: 3
From: Santa Maria, CA
Make real sure the clutch hydraulics are in top shape too.
I granny shift because the previous owner had the CAGS enabled and must have ground the 2-3 synchro and gears pretty good during daily driving. It binds at that spot sometimes when the RPM's are up.
I granny shift because the previous owner had the CAGS enabled and must have ground the 2-3 synchro and gears pretty good during daily driving. It binds at that spot sometimes when the RPM's are up.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,881
Likes: 25
From: The third orange grove on the left
Originally Posted by kwik_ta
Don't let the rev limiter 'save' your motor. No offense... but if you need that to save your motor as you shift... you need to learn how to race first.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,793
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From: St. Peters MO Sometimes you have to prove yourself by doing alot of killing or alot of dying...
I shift at 6100rpm's. My limiter is set at 6400rpms. I've never hit the limiter and I never let off the gas. It shouldn't take more than a fraction of a second to hit another gear. In my opinion. There are several better than me... and several that I'm better than. It all reverts back to driving style.
In my F-body days racing around the streets, I was always slammed gears. That is just one thing I got good at. Most 3rd gen F-bodies were automatics. There isn't a human alive that can shift a manual with the speed and consistancy of an auto so I was at a disadvantage. I learned to get better at shifting so my disadvantage wasn't that bad.
When you stick a gear it has to be instantanious... and virtually perfect. At the same moment you stab the clutch you need to be entering the next gear. I may be exagerating some, but your shifts should take less than a second (I hope Mojo can back me on that statement).
In my F-body days racing around the streets, I was always slammed gears. That is just one thing I got good at. Most 3rd gen F-bodies were automatics. There isn't a human alive that can shift a manual with the speed and consistancy of an auto so I was at a disadvantage. I learned to get better at shifting so my disadvantage wasn't that bad.
When you stick a gear it has to be instantanious... and virtually perfect. At the same moment you stab the clutch you need to be entering the next gear. I may be exagerating some, but your shifts should take less than a second (I hope Mojo can back me on that statement).
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
From: Wentzville MO
power shifting
For us old timers that grew up with a 4 speed in our hand the hammer was down start to finish. The fluid motion comes from practice and a "feel" for it. I always bellied up to the wheel to keep the knee angle comfortable and learned not to jerk and slam the stick. Your muscles will learn where the top and bottom of the travel is. Watch Jeggy hit his pro stock lever. They don't use the clutch after the launch but any good gear jammer can shift like that with a clutch. Did it for years back in the 60's and 70's. Powerglide with a brake replaced all that but that's another story.