Average cranking time before start?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2002
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Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
The cam less engine holds all sorts of performance promise. The servos or solenoids will be electronically triggered, by a computer, of course. Picture, a baby smooth idle with a 200* duration @ .050" profile, with the duration increasing with the rpms.
Servo/solenoid operated valves are the future of internal combustion engines. But it does put quite a durability task upon the servo or
solenoid. It would have to be one bullet proof unit.
In related news, I think BMW already has or is working on a throttleless engine where the rpm is controlled by valve lift or something, and that would require a camless engine as well, yes?
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: San Pedro CA
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
Although I've heard of the cam less engine, the starter less is new to me. I see a can of worms to work through, there. If a cylinder is poised to fire, how do you get fuel to it? Even with direct injection, there is the matter of compression. I have little doubt they'll do it. It will be interesting. The cam less engine holds all sorts of performance promise. The servos or solenoids will be electronically triggered, by a computer, of course. Picture, a baby smooth idle with a 200* duration @ .050" profile, with the duration increasing with the rpms. I can see it now: "Hey, Ski, can you burn me a chip with another 10* duration from 8000 to 10,000 rpms?" "I need to break into the nines in my commuter car."
RACE ON!!!
RACE ON!!!
If I remember my trivia correctly, most engines stop at the same point, when shut off. This means, they could stop the engine at a specific point. Then, force some compressed air into that cylinder, fuel, and bang, started.
This works if they use a pneumatic valve actuation, cause there is your air pressure to fill the cylinder.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: The Top of Utah
Originally Posted by bogus
sequentual injection is direct, already.
RACE ON!!!
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
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From: San Pedro CA
well, that's true... I forgot the subtle difference there between sequencial and direct. my bad.
however, there are some direct injected gas engines in Japan... I think Mitsubishi has one.
What I don't see is how a Diesel could be made to start this way... hmmm...
however, there are some direct injected gas engines in Japan... I think Mitsubishi has one.
What I don't see is how a Diesel could be made to start this way... hmmm...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 6
From: NS
Originally Posted by MrRenoman
Mine starts the same way, instantly. I can't believe it. I don't have to do anything except turn the key.
Yep, turn the key and bam, it starts almost instant. It *might* take 1 second. Stock '95 LT-1.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
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Originally Posted by bogus
Since I installed the LTCC, start time has increased a touch, but no more than 2~3 seconds... max.
A good friend of mine was at Dodge School (he works as an A-line tech at a Dodge dealer). They were learning about the new HEMI. However, the instructor said that Ford is working on a motor without a starter and without camshafts.
Using some form of servo to activate the valves, the starting process would be dependant on very sophisticated crank sensors so the engine computer could find which cylinder is nearest to TDC, fire it, and BAM! Engine started.
A good friend of mine was at Dodge School (he works as an A-line tech at a Dodge dealer). They were learning about the new HEMI. However, the instructor said that Ford is working on a motor without a starter and without camshafts.
Using some form of servo to activate the valves, the starting process would be dependant on very sophisticated crank sensors so the engine computer could find which cylinder is nearest to TDC, fire it, and BAM! Engine started.
The starter thing is a very interesting point. I guess you could inject fuel into the cylinder, close the valve and ignite it. You won't have the compression but any combustion process is going to create an expansion. The question becomes would it be enough expansion to move it fast enough to create the necessary compression on another cylinder? The really cool part about it though is that during the starting phase you could actually hang the valves open so that you're not fighting vacuum and compression on the cylinders that you don't need it for. It would be a complicated computer program program but very neat to see it work.
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Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: San Pedro CA
Originally Posted by Nathan Plemons
I wrote a paper on the electromechanical valve engine back in high school. At the time they actually had a Ford Ranger with a working system. The two main problems was that it was very noisy and it couldn't keep up above about 3000 RPM's. Hell that was like 6 years ago though, I'm sure they've made a lot of progress since then. Just imagine the posibilities if you could change duration and lift on the fly. You'd have an engine that could run a peak efficiency regardless of RPM. No more of this you have to trade low end torque to get upper end horsepower crap. :drool:
The starter thing is a very interesting point. I guess you could inject fuel into the cylinder, close the valve and ignite it. You won't have the compression but any combustion process is going to create an expansion. The question becomes would it be enough expansion to move it fast enough to create the necessary compression on another cylinder? The really cool part about it though is that during the starting phase you could actually hang the valves open so that you're not fighting vacuum and compression on the cylinders that you don't need it for. It would be a complicated computer program program but very neat to see it work.
The starter thing is a very interesting point. I guess you could inject fuel into the cylinder, close the valve and ignite it. You won't have the compression but any combustion process is going to create an expansion. The question becomes would it be enough expansion to move it fast enough to create the necessary compression on another cylinder? The really cool part about it though is that during the starting phase you could actually hang the valves open so that you're not fighting vacuum and compression on the cylinders that you don't need it for. It would be a complicated computer program program but very neat to see it work.
if the valves are already pneumatic, then the air compression ability is there...
as for the luxury of endless valve timing, at the valve, drool is the word, yo. damn. That is just insane. So many more variable. VTEC on steroids. Could you image a 7 litre V8 with this kind of technology? 700hp, gut wrenching torque off the line, and an 8000 RPM redline. PLUS, get 35mpg on the highway.
It is not just possible, it is real.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: NS
Originally Posted by bogus
That leads to a thought I posted above, the ability to inject compressed air into a cylinder to give it compression.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: SCMR Rat Pack'r Charter Member..Great Bend KS
Originally Posted by bogus
Using some form of servo to activate the valves, the starting process would be dependant on very sophisticated crank sensors so the engine computer could find which cylinder is nearest to TDC, fire it, and BAM! Engine started.
I would think this method would not be very reliable, since after sitting for several days, there would be no air/fuel mixture to ignite...?
I had read about the same starting method somewhere, but its almost unworkable. If you want to eliminate a starter motor, just combine it with the alternator...
Larry
