I just picked the car up after a few new mods including methanol injection from snow performance.

I drove the car home and there was quite a bit of traffic so I couldn't really test it out. I hooked up my lap top to the DFI and saw that the IAT was reading around 120 to 127 degrees while boosting at an average of 6psi. Before the methanol I noticed the IAT to be at around 180+ degrees with less boost.

I couldn't locate any methanol so I went to home depot and picked up some denatured alcohol. I am running a rough 60/40 mix with water.

Along with the injection I also installed a smaller pulley, 72lb injectors, and new springs and retainer.

I am going to do a little tuning and let people know the results.

Can anyone with experience with methanol injection give tips for tuning?

The snow kit is boost referenced.

TIA,

Paul

 

And that's why I'm going to buy from Greg at Blowerworks... Obviously he's willing to help us here on this forum...

Man, are you building a rocket or what?

 

i was over at the C5 forced induction section the other day and there was a thread on bashing blowerworks, i thought that was very intersting. The C5 forced induction has some very intersting characters for sure!

I almost got the unit from blowerworks but the complexity of the delux kit scared me. I went with the dual nozzle big pump kit from snow. Snow has very good customer support but they don't have any experiences with C4s, I according to Tim (i think that's his name) I am the first one with his kit. They are testing out some C5s right now and will be featured in a few magazines soon but no C4s.

I would also look into www.alkycontrol.com

This is the kit that everyone over at the C5 FI section swears on.

 

I just got back from a drive and datalogged the IAT and it is amazing how much alcohol cools the intake.

I went from idling between 120-127 degrees to 81-95 degrees while under boost. Then when it stops spraying it eventually creeps upto 120 range while cruising and idling.

Wonder what kind of difference the temperature would make at the track or at the dyno?

I want to try straight meth or alcohol when I get a chance.

The only thing that sucks is that my nozzles for the meth injection is before my BOV so when I lift off the throttle the BOV sprays some meth/water under the hood.

 

Z,
That is a HUGE fire risk!!!!! compressed and atomized air/methanol being released in the engine bay near header primaries is really not something i would want to risk.. you are liable to have an underhood fire wiping out all your hard work and possibly yourself. too many things under the hood that could cause ignition.. think i would relocate the BOV or Nozzle to avoid it being released. a direct port system would be sweet i bet..

have a picture of your setup?

lemme know if you plan on changing it...I hope!]
Chris


Awesome ont he temp drops though!

 

Yeah, I thought about that. I tried to light some of the mixture on fire to see how flammable it actually is. Since I am using an approximate 60/40 mix it doesn't even light on fire. I am sure if I run it straight it would be hazardous. The way my BOV is vented is towards the front passenger of the car. i don't think this is ok by any means I might have to put a filter and a catch can for the meth to drip into.

what do you think?

I will take a picture a post it!

Pau

 

Z,
even a filter and a catch can would be hard pressed to seperate the amount of mixture being released from the blow off valve... it would certainly help trap some but i dunno if it would be enough and would hate to be the guiney pig who tested it..lol .. i might consider a tube over the BOV directing it away from anything that might ignite it.. i know this would be fairly ugly, but if moving it is not an option... you may have to get creative on the outlet. maybe even venting it to the inlet behind the filter like a bypass valve.. that may be the most viable solution.. after all it is going to be precooled air from the meth anyways! that might be what i would do to ensure it just gets reingested to the motor!

lemme know what ya think!

Chris

 

I am going to talk to the guy at snow on Monday and see what he says.

Here are a few pictures.





Thanks for the input!

Paul

 

Hi Z,

Well I bought the standard plus system from blowerworks. Greg is a great guy. I didn't have to go to the hardware store for anything it was well put together and Greg included great information even after the fact.

I heard people were trashing him in the C5 forum, all i can say is "there is always that 10% " who aren't satisfied for whatever reason that have to blast people in open forums ( not you). So really no one hears both sides of the story. Let alone Greg's side of the story.

In any event, all of my transactions with blowerworks have been extremely above board and I would highly recommend them to anyone. ~puts away soapbox~

I am running 25 % Denatured alcohol with 75% distilled water ( another key) my system pumps 15 gallons per hour given your using NOX and hand grenades, dynomite and all HEHEHE you may need to go to a 20 gallon nozzle.

I have found similar results with my system. I'm at zero knock and have been able to trim back the fuel a good bit.

Initially I was tuning with straight distilled water to bet the fuel mix running correct, I have found in my experience that if you are running rich with the water it seems to really bog down heh. I did the same as you I took denatured and mixed with the water. I use distilled water to keep the nozzle from plugging from the elements in the water.

I at that time added a modified nozzle which pushed my boost up another 2 pounds of boost which pushed me into getting a high output intank fuel pump since i only planned on 450 horse I was running out of fuel on the tpo end So I'm retuning and hoping to hit the dyno in the next week or so. In my case it was good for at least another 50 horsepower just cooling the intake charge as you mentioned. In southern california in the summer we can fry eggs on the streets here so it is a welcome site. I'm migrating to a point where i should be able to go back to virtually stock timings. I'm taking things slow and methodical, working out my fuel first.

I have been told that going 100 alcohol or methanol may degrade the performance as it can contribute to detonation. Some have tried to go 50 /50 but I seem to be doing extremely well with 25% / 75.

i haven't logged back to back runs but I would expect that the injection would be much better than an intercooler since the water and alky is cooled through the velocity of the intake charge.

Very nice looking setup. I'm setup about the same I have pictures on my website as well.

If I can help let me know!

Mo

 

thanks for the input mo.

I have heard both good and bad things about running pure meth. or alky. ECS claims that you make the most power while running 100% meth while some other tuners say other wise. I am not going to do that until I get to a dyno. I am happy with my mix right now.

what kind of timing are you running full boost? I am running 30 degrees at 12 psi I think I can get away with more but then again I don't want to risk anything until I get to a dyno.

I just switched to RC 750cc or 72lb injectors @ 48 psi and when I datalogged it under fulll boost of 12.3 psi @7550rpm the duty cycle was at 81%.
I also have a kenne bell BAP just in case I need it, but right now it is not activated. What injectors are you running? do you know the duty cycle of them?

what size is the tank of your reservior? Mine is 2 qts and I think it is way too small. I have it activated at 5psi and full spray at 7.5psi. After 20 mins of driving under low boost the tank is half gone!

A gallon of denatured acohol is $10 and the way it sit now it can get pretty expensive if i keep doing the 60/40 mix. I think I might have to do a 25% mix like you under normal driving and only use 60% or more and an aggressive tune when raced. What do you think?

 

Hi Zelement,

That is interesting, i'm headed for the dyno in the next few weeks. I have a touch more MAF tuning to do first.

I might take a can of Straight alcky and make a pull or two to see what I get. I could be wrong I would also think that the ambient temp would have a lot to do with it as well. I may be proven wrong.

I'm at 27 with full boost but it is conservative, I would think that you are probably right close to the end... are you getttin any knock at all? I'm at zero even through the shifts... Since i put the water / alky system on, I have been concentrating on the fuel, but i know there is definately more timing in there as well. I have "heard" that you can basically go to stock timing which as you probably know is like 33 degrees 100 KPA at 6000 and 36 @ 6500 .

When I get to that, I'm probably going to add a degree or two at a time mainly for the sake of my sanity and engine LOL even thought I know the PCM will pull up to 9 degrees of timing. Again i'm sure this all ties in with intake air and fuel octane, moon, stars and perhaps even the heat range on your plugs LOL.

I'm running 36 pound injectors with the superpumper at about 75 PSI of fuel pressure. I'm hitting about 83- 85 % duty cycles now that i have added the high output Bosch intank fuel pump. ( I also have a T-Rex in line as well.) They are both on the Superpumper, I also have a switch I can flip should something happen with the Superpumper it will revert me to the steady 12 volts from the stock system.

I kinda decided that I was going to be happy with about 450 horses . After adding the Gasious intercooling setup and the modified intake nozzle immediately gave me put me at 10 pounds of boost and rough calculations at this point in excess of 475 horses so I was running out of fuel at 6000 rpm. I have always been in favor of running smaller injectors with high fuel pressure for better atomization.

I'm running off my washer reservior which is about a full gallon, my nozzle is 15 gallons per hour. My usage is about the same as yours two WOT runs and I have to add about a quart. I would agree in your case 2 quarts is probably too small. I pretty much go through the full gallon to about a tank of gas, I usually top off before I go out. Blowerworks has a bladder that mounts right where you have your bottle now it's a nice setup, I think it is 5 gallons.

A modulated water/ alky system may be in the future as you could tune better with your water usage according to your boost. I'd like to get one as well, however right now I'm running off a pressure switch controlled by the 2 BAR MAP, I'm turning on at 2 pounds and I think it is full stream at about 5 pounds and will hold then as long as i'm under boost.

I didn't do any "real" precise timing on my runs, but what I started with was straight distilled water! I still had zero knock... I didnt really see any dramatic difference, meaning that the car still ran great at my level of performance. Then I went to the 75/ 25 mix and have been tuning to it. My personal opinion would be yes for "beating" around i'd just go straight distilled water.... then come race time yup add the alky too it

If you have mor questions please feel free to ask...

You have a VERY nice setup

Mo

 

I was reading in the C5 FI section that if you run straight water you actually lean out the motor. It was explained by ECS, the thread might still be there. I think it is under "difference between methanol and alcohol injection".

I am not running a Knock sensor.

I want to run a bigger tank but have no where to put it. My engine bay is completely filled!

 

Paul,

Greg at Blowerworls actually has a stain less 7 gal tank that mounts in place of the material that otherwise supports the rear bumper. It's not cheap, over $1,000, and would be a bear to install (I think you have to remove the rear clip).. but it would solve your problem....

 

I was going to suggest that... I'm fine with my washer fluid tank, he also has a bladder for about I think $400 it's like 4-5 gallon.

Mo

 

what about tapping into the washer resevior? how many qts is that?

 

You can do that as well.

 

that was my first thought...its money but a sweet setup.

 

Zelement,

The washer reservior is about a gallon, I run too back to back WOT and I still have half a gallon left. At my 15 gph under boost it gives me about 4 minutes continuous...

It works great for me....

Mo

 

Thanks that is the information I need. I think this is the way too go for me.

THanks again MO.

 

Your welcome

If you have any questions let me know...

Mo