Frank.. if that is so... why am I running 12.5 @110mph in good air? When I went to Del. for the division 1 race I ran 110 both days, & in BAD air I run 108 at E Town.. & you know I haven't touched my motor, & still have the stock exhaust manifolds & cats on.. all I did was use muffler elim.

With the 3000 converter I ran 12.2x - 12.3x I think my car runs better without mufflers..

 

yes I have and I'm rather ashamed of my times.

My best was a 13.7 at 105.48 on Goodyear GSC's at 26lbs of tire pressure. I had a 2.3 60' so I know that is where I killed myself. I just need some practice... and maybe a set of sticky tires.

 

I think it depends on the engine and tuning. You will lose low end HP and gain high end HP. Whether or not the gain offsets the loss is something that would have to be proven on the track or the dyno. On paper the eliminators will show a gain of power, but that's not always the whole story.

 

You are obviously allowed to think what you will and are by all means entitled to your own opinion. there are quite a few people on this board that go without cats. i got rid of my mufflers for the reason of sounds same goes for the cats. i lost weight in doing both and apperantly i gained a little bit of HP at the same time. eac mod i do i lose time in the quarter as well as pick up trap speed. my car is not a daily driver. if yours is im sure you contribute more to air pollution than my corvette. If you dont want to take the cats off of yours then fine. thats your desicion but please dont rag other people for doing it.

 

I will rag people who remove cats on cars that are street driven. At the time of your post, I was unaware the car was a track car.

As for the hp gains, I was trying to make a point. That point being, your car gained an entire 10 hp by removing the cats and mufflers.

I don't see that as being a huge gain in a daily driver.

I will continue to question those who remove the cats. There is very little we consumers can do to help the environment, one is to maintain our cars in a good working order with good emission controls. The other is to recycle as many products as we can.

If these things bother you, then, well, continue to destroy the planet on which we live... cause I am sure you, and many others will... cause many people still believe that cats are this god aweful conspiracy to make our cars slow... that could be farther from the truth.

 

In the case of me and JP, neither one of us have tuned our cars after the muff elims.

John, I'm going by my own experience, you've seen me run all those times. Remember though our cars are not identical, I have the stick, you in the auto.

 

I may not agree with the method of persuasion that Bogus implements to make his point... but he does have a very valid point. There was an article published in Pontiac Performance and Hot Rod that tried to disprove the myth that factory cats hinder horsepower. For test mules they picked a fox body Mustang and a late 3rd gen Trans Am. They proved in both cases that the factory cat can sustain 400hp without choking the system and still run at an environmentally safe level of exhaust gasses. To conclude the test, they installed a set of aftermarket cats for "better flow and horsepower applications" and found that they were able to produce clean power to the 600hp range.

This article was published in the mid 90's on dated materials. I'm sure with today's technology improvements the flow of today's cats are superior of those of previous generations. Things to consider as well... the Z06 put out 405hp as did the ZR1 using cats... the Vipers and 04 Cobras are able to generate 500+hp using cats... to me there is no substantial proof that gutting or removing the factory cats are going to produce enough gains to warrant justify the pollution contribution. And there is my 4¢ worth.

 

What about my neighbor.. he is driving around in a 1966 Vette Big Block.. he has no cats ! Not to rag on you.. but thats one of the reasons I'd never move to the "Tree Hugger state" of Ca. AKA La La Land..

Give them enough time & you all will be riding bikes.. (pedal type) My car runs fine with the cats ON.. but you can bet your (clean air) they'd be off in a sec if I thought my car would run better..

Tell Kerry et al to get rid of their SUV's and private jets.. Kerrys Jet makes more pollution in 1 flight than my a car with no cat does in a year !!

How about all the hair spray our wives are using that is killing the ozone I wont let my wife use it.. I sure as hell dont want global warming.. Imagine if ALL the Ice Cap melted and flooded the mid West ?

Just look at how the New Jersey people are killing Black Bears.. why they (NJ) even allowed people to hunt & kill some bears...

& in NY those evil people in some 5th ave apt broke a nest belonging to a Hawk... now that hawk is gonna have to move to Ct. or Central Park..

Bottom line.. we'll be OK when people like Barbara Boxer, & Al Gore get into real power.. oh we need Michael Moore also.. then Ca. will be "squeaky" clean.

Oh just so you/others dont think I dont worry about our environment.. where I live there is a lake, & there are about 10-12 Geese & boy do they crap all over the lawn...
I go out at night, & so far have shot 5 of em.. now there is only 1/2 as much pollution (geese crap) pretty soon I'll get em all & we will have clean grass...

Now about recycling... well thats another topic...

 

LOL cut down on geese pollution! Yeah I am all about trying to keep out enviroment somewhat livable but there is many other things polluting the air besides no cats on my car i drive once a week. I once heard that the manufacturing plant that makes the cats distributes more pollution than the pollution their cats save. IM not sure how true that is but its something to htink about

 

Red96Coupe... you are ate up!!! I've never heard of anyone trying to control the 'geese pollution' levels before... that is just priceless.

 

i gotta admit i live in cali' and i hate the laws here.there are so many smog laws and more pollution controlled laws than most other states combined.yes this is a tree hugger state and its got its wonders but....having no cats on isn't gonna save the world. if california wants to be unfair with some of there smog laws then smog bikes/diesels and $&%in' jets as you would a gas vehicle.

 

u need practice my friend....i have a mostly stock 93 auto (muff elims, slp cai) and i run 14.0 @ 99 with a slew of 2.1* 60's and even a 2.09 with the baldest orignial gsc's you've ever seen

 

so, using the "everyone/everything else polutes, so why don't I?" theory. Makes a lot of sense... whatever.

I live in CA, but my feelings about the small amount of civic responsibility that comes with running cats is a small price to pay for clean air. I lived in DE until June, so I know east coast more than a little bit.

However, the history of smog in LA is epic. back in the late 50s, the air here was icky. population was booming, cars numbers increasing by leaps and bounds, and the natural landscape could not be change enough to fix the problem.

The problem here is that the mountains to the east and the ocean to the west. The various trade winds to their very best to keep the smog trapped in the valley, or, the ever famous LA Basin.

Back in the early 60s, researchers placed air filter traps on the tops of the tallest buildings here in LA. Those filters, using heavy filter paper, started white, but within the 24 hours, they were black as coal.

My gf's mom grew up in LA, and she remembers going out on days, anytime of the year, when the air was so toxic, her lungs would burn and hurt. That cannot be good.

It is from this research that other folks realized something had to be done. At about the same time as these tests were going on, other researchers were discovering the catylitic converter.

It took a few more years, but they started getting them installed on cars.

Over time, the air here in LA has improved by leaps and bounds. The same filter paper elements, the last I read, would turn light grey, but it takes a number of months before that happens.

The LA story is unique, due to the lay of the land, and the concentration of cars. But the results don't lie.

As for other parts of the country, Pittsburgh was a nightmare, Cleveland, not much better. NYC? icky.

Since emissions came in, the air quality has improved tons. I think that makes us healthier. Our children are healthier... and our future might just survive now.

I remember as a kid, January, 1977, it was the first big big blizzard I remember, I was 11, the snow piles started white, but within days, turned grey, then black. Now, it the snow never gets past sand.... that says the air is cleaner.

I just wish others felt the same sense of responsiblity.

Sure, there are things that pollute, jets sure do, but passenger liners put out less because 130 people are on it, averaged, it's better for the air, really...

I don't want to be viewed as a militant, I am not. I just want us to keep our cars legal... this way, the air stays cleaner.

I don't support all that CARB does. I wish they had a system that would permit the hotrodder to do mods that don't meet the letter of the law, as long as they are willing to test every year, instead of every 2.

I am the first to suggest removing the precats on an L98, they don't do much more than create heat and choke power.

I don't support making older cars pass modern standards. That's just nuts. There are not enough of them to make a real difference. But if everyone on the road today started gutting their cats for 10 hp, I don't think the air would be clean for long (I know, modern engines are better, but given time, things would get icky).

I hope this clarifies my position. I may use some rather draconian methods, it's just that I feel this is an important issue, and the responsible solution is to do the right thing - leave the emissions there... when they matter.

 

Having cats really doesn't make your car run clean. Having a well running car, and occasionally running "Drygas" makes it run clean

 

I too am interested in the ORIGINAL POST with the L98 and eliminators,
Will the results be the same, better , or worse than a CAT back
How important is changing the pipes of a cat back [using the "system"] copmared to just using good mufflers.

Paul

 

you are kidding, right? I hope you are kidding.

 

The L98 exhaust is rather restrictive. It starts at the front with pre-cats, Y's into a central pipe with the main cat then Y's out for the mufflers.

A simple fix, ditch the precats. They are annoying... replace the mufflers with elims. That trick is worth 15hp, from what I can determine, and the car will run clean and be legal in 49 states.

If you really wanted to save money, straight pipes from a local muffler shop are good enough.

Aftermarket Y pipes are good, cause they have smoother bends, and will handle more air flow.

The best, LEGAL, L98 system would be, LT headers, no pre-cats, 3.5" center with highflow center cat, good Y-pipes, and no mufflers. It will still sound tolerable, cause the center pipe acts as a crossover, and the cat will actually be the muffler.

If that is too loud, there are muffler options...

but that arraingment would have to be worth 40hp.

 

I don't run cats on my car but obviously its a daily driver. The cats are hard on my car and I refuse to run them.

Bogus, Im not picking on you, but anyone who gets this worked up about the environment should go buy a hybrid Civic or Prius.

With or without cats a Vette still pollutes a TON less than half the cars in the world I see driving around. The Mopars from the 80s are the worst oil burners Ive ever seen...nearly every single one of them. Turn your anger toward the big problem, its not the Vettes.

Take all those **** poor running oil burners off the road and every Vette still on the road could run with out cats and the measure of impact would be none.