9 second D44 IRS?
Former Vendor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,204
Likes: 6
From: St Marys PA
Originally Posted by TONYDEE64
I just spoke with Tom of Dutchman rear ends. He said that indeed their housing is one that accepts any type of Ford 9" third member or you could do a Chevy 12-bolt as well. This means that you could buy a Monza, Camaro Ford 9" third member from Currie Enterprieses or others that already has provisions for a torque arm. Attaching the actual housing to the Vette sounds simple to me since we already have the torque arm to prevent the up and down motion of the third member. All we would have to do is attach it in two places to the frame just like the factory unit rear cover. Of course this would also necessitate a fabricated bracket but it certainly does not sound like a big deal. As far as using our Vette hubs he said he "thought" we could do it and would not have any problems hooking up their camber and toe adjusters that attach onto their houising----although you might have to make some shorter or longer Heim end rods to mate with their housing.. It's impossible to tell as they really don't have that great of a picture on their website that demonstrates where their adusters are located.
Anyway, here are the problems as I see them... their housing is only designed to accept the Series 1350 U-joints which are the very same ones used in our Dana 44 centersections (right?). They also use the same hub bearing assemblies that our current units use. To me this seems like an awful lot of money to end up with only a stronger centersection. I think you could easily spend $5,000-8,000 on going this route. If I could end up with a bullet proof set up it would be worth it... What do you guys think? Does using the Ford 9" help us at all given the limitations of the Series 1350 stuff and the stock hub bearings/spindles? Are we just better of to bite the bullet and go with a straight axle?
I also told him that us C4 guys were dying for a solution to our weak IRSs and that these cars are becoming really cheap and the masses are starting to hot rod them... He said they would possible like to do one if they had a car to R&D on... Any willing takers on the Oregon area?
Anyway, here are the problems as I see them... their housing is only designed to accept the Series 1350 U-joints which are the very same ones used in our Dana 44 centersections (right?). They also use the same hub bearing assemblies that our current units use. To me this seems like an awful lot of money to end up with only a stronger centersection. I think you could easily spend $5,000-8,000 on going this route. If I could end up with a bullet proof set up it would be worth it... What do you guys think? Does using the Ford 9" help us at all given the limitations of the Series 1350 stuff and the stock hub bearings/spindles? Are we just better of to bite the bullet and go with a straight axle?
I also told him that us C4 guys were dying for a solution to our weak IRSs and that these cars are becoming really cheap and the masses are starting to hot rod them... He said they would possible like to do one if they had a car to R&D on... Any willing takers on the Oregon area?
That will fit in our C4 corvette cars?????Remember there are other Dana rears differentials that this guy might be confusing them with.
I find it nearly impossible that you could bolt a third member up to a housing under there, since it would need the C beam still - not to mention a ford 9" rear is HUGE compared to our housing. I just don't see it all working out.
I admit that I am a little under the weather with a bad cold, and perhaps things are not computing as they should be above the shoulders, but something sounds awefully messed up here with this discussion. So forgive me for being a little confused - can you explain this all a little more. Pictures of how this all is suppose to work?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,627
Likes: 8
From: Drag racing junkie Va.
After creating a couple of bushels of D44 landfill I took the leap to a solid 9". Since I race every week, with no street time at all and plans to go for the nines, it was the only safe move to make for me. However, I appreciate the development work that Jesse, Jeb and others are doing to prolong the D44s. But remember that some of us are beating on 20 year old aluminum housings & components that have a limited life span. I know I had a couple of "exciting moments" when things let go, I just want everybody to get home in one piece.
Dave
Dave
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
From: Speedo Indiana
Jesse,
All I know is that Currie told me that they have a 9" third member that is used in the replacement axle that they have for the F-bodies that also use a torque arm. I have no idea if F-bodies use the same type of torque arms as our C4s or whether dimensionally it or the 9" carrier will fit at all. I think Hooked up is right in that if you're wanting to lean on the D44.. then you're in for a limimted ride....and maybe a dangerous one in the end... All I want to know is how do the Viper guys make their IRSs live with some of their motors? One guy is running wheels-up 8.75s with no problems (are their CV joint half shafts that much stronger than our set ups? I just don't get it... There has got to be a better answer than expending the time and money necessary to put a straight axle under there.. man, that looks like a monumental job...!!! What are the 1000hp Supras doing to make their IRS's live at the strip?
All I know is that Currie told me that they have a 9" third member that is used in the replacement axle that they have for the F-bodies that also use a torque arm. I have no idea if F-bodies use the same type of torque arms as our C4s or whether dimensionally it or the 9" carrier will fit at all. I think Hooked up is right in that if you're wanting to lean on the D44.. then you're in for a limimted ride....and maybe a dangerous one in the end... All I want to know is how do the Viper guys make their IRSs live with some of their motors? One guy is running wheels-up 8.75s with no problems (are their CV joint half shafts that much stronger than our set ups? I just don't get it... There has got to be a better answer than expending the time and money necessary to put a straight axle under there.. man, that looks like a monumental job...!!! What are the 1000hp Supras doing to make their IRS's live at the strip?
Last edited by TONYDEE64; Jan 17, 2005 at 05:37 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,726
Likes: 24
From: Freehold, NJ
Originally Posted by jburnett
The spool is the biggest eliminator of stress and breakage for a D44; Tom's is who sells it. They sell it as a "drop-in" spool but it does require machining as Jesse stated (I got him his spool). It's relatively minor (I'm in the middle of machining a couple of them for sale) but still must be done.
I'd be interested in a spool for my Dad's '96 for a few reasons: longevity, durability and to eliminate the occaisional peg-leg burnouts that ruin the run. What would be involved in setting up a spool if I were to get a "drop-in" spool from Tom's that has been finished by you.
Thanks!
Last edited by Eric Fischer; Jan 17, 2005 at 09:56 PM. Reason: clarification
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,013
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by TONYDEE64
Jesse,
All I know is that Currie told me that they have a 9" third member that is used in the replacement axle that they have for the F-bodies that also use a torque arm. I have no idea if F-bodies use the same type of torque arms as our C4s or whether dimensionally it or the 9" carrier will fit at all. I think Hooked up is right in that if you're wanting to lean on the D44.. then you're in for a limimted ride....and maybe a dangerous one in the end... All I want to know is how do the Viper guys make their IRSs live with some of their motors? One guy is running wheels-up 8.75s with no problems (are their CV joint half shafts that much stronger than our set ups? I just don't get it... There has got to be a better answer than expending the time and money necessary to put a straight axle under there.. man, that looks like a monumental job...!!! What are the 1000hp Supras doing to make their IRS's live at the strip?
All I know is that Currie told me that they have a 9" third member that is used in the replacement axle that they have for the F-bodies that also use a torque arm. I have no idea if F-bodies use the same type of torque arms as our C4s or whether dimensionally it or the 9" carrier will fit at all. I think Hooked up is right in that if you're wanting to lean on the D44.. then you're in for a limimted ride....and maybe a dangerous one in the end... All I want to know is how do the Viper guys make their IRSs live with some of their motors? One guy is running wheels-up 8.75s with no problems (are their CV joint half shafts that much stronger than our set ups? I just don't get it... There has got to be a better answer than expending the time and money necessary to put a straight axle under there.. man, that looks like a monumental job...!!! What are the 1000hp Supras doing to make their IRS's live at the strip?
Former Vendor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,204
Likes: 6
From: St Marys PA
Originally Posted by Eric Fischer
Jeb, that's some great work you are doing on the D44!
I'd be interested in a spool for my Dad's '96 for a few reasons: longevity, durability and to eliminate the occaisional peg-leg burnouts that ruin the run. What would be involved in setting up a spool if I were to get a "drop-in" spool from Tom's that has been finished by you.
Thanks!
I'd be interested in a spool for my Dad's '96 for a few reasons: longevity, durability and to eliminate the occaisional peg-leg burnouts that ruin the run. What would be involved in setting up a spool if I were to get a "drop-in" spool from Tom's that has been finished by you.
Thanks!
I did mine, then Corkys, and both held up all summer. I did break my 1/2 shaft once and a outter spindle, but they are MUCH cheaper <100 dollars. And Corky wound up twisting the rear driveshaft yoke in 2
Guess we are just making too much power - or it could be the 100s of runs we have on them. That is one reason I went to a bigger cam, and a T350 (1st gear 3.06 to 2.52 in the T350)
Plan is to loose some bottom end, and gain top end.As for setting them up, they are no more difficult than the regular carrier.
Last edited by ski_dwn_it; Jan 18, 2005 at 09:23 AM.
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Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 392
Likes: 0
From: VA
This question is for Jesse and off the subject, sorry in advance. Jesse I was wondering what was involved when you installed the T350, did you fabricate the necessary components yourself or buy a kit. I have found kits offerered to convert to a T400 but not the T350, I'd rather go with the T350 as more power will hit the pavement. Also, do you or would you, install the spool into a Dana44 for people, as I've thought of doing this for my new 44.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,204
Likes: 6
From: St Marys PA
Originally Posted by Sinister87
This question is for Jesse and off the subject, sorry in advance. Jesse I was wondering what was involved when you installed the T350, did you fabricate the necessary components yourself or buy a kit. I have found kits offerered to convert to a T400 but not the T350, I'd rather go with the T350 as more power will hit the pavement. Also, do you or would you, install the spool into a Dana44 for people, as I've thought of doing this for my new 44.
Sinister...
There is a kit that is available for the T350 units. I have the place written down at work in my notepad, but don't recall it off the top of my head.
I am getting my tranny from www.rosslertrans.com which builds trannies that live behind some of the most radical motors on the planet. He too said he could get the adapter piece which allows you to use the existing tail shaft, and it bolts up inbetween the tranny and the stock tailhousing.
I dropped my stuff off at his shop on Sunday and he is going to put it all together for me with the right speedo gears etc. That way all I have to do is put it in.
Email me about the spool and I can help you out of you like.
In my opinion the spool is the most cost effective alternative to the solid axle.
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 392
Likes: 0
From: VA
Thanks Jesse, I have talked to rossler in past when I was thinking of building up my 700r4 as I know they do all of LPE's tranny's and are backing many high performance vettes but didn't know about the T350 conversion they do I'll email you about the spool, again thanks.
I'll email you about the spool, again thanks.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,246
Likes: 1
From: SouthBend IN
I've had my turbo 350 in my car for over a year now. I bought my bolt in kit from DDW Automotive. I told skidwnit about this. You have to use your orig. tail shaft housing.
here's their # 574-257-9456. Ask for Dave and tell him Mike with the 85 vette referred them.
The reason i said ski dwn it has the D-44 figured out is he and Corkyvette only had a few issues this whole last year and they make alot of power with plenty of TQ coming from those 434's. PLus and also maybe the biggest attribute to them is ski runs a 3800 stall and cork a 4400 stall, none of us that drive on the street with any regularity will have that high a stall hitting the rear that hard.
TonyD, your going to break it the first time it hooks. You have a blown big block, which also means your pushing more weight.
here's their # 574-257-9456. Ask for Dave and tell him Mike with the 85 vette referred them.
The reason i said ski dwn it has the D-44 figured out is he and Corkyvette only had a few issues this whole last year and they make alot of power with plenty of TQ coming from those 434's. PLus and also maybe the biggest attribute to them is ski runs a 3800 stall and cork a 4400 stall, none of us that drive on the street with any regularity will have that high a stall hitting the rear that hard.
TonyD, your going to break it the first time it hooks. You have a blown big block, which also means your pushing more weight.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
From: Speedo Indiana
Originally Posted by mike 1985
TonyD, your going to break it the first time it hooks. You have a blown big block, which also means your pushing more weight.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,284
Likes: 4
From: Canton MI
hey Tony,
What you should do is get the new Dana 44 case. Its all CNC cut with billet main caps with ARP bolts, and the new Dana cover to help keep the main caps from moving and some chrome molly side yokes and a spool.
I have to drop my car off at a pro shop to get it back half with a 9 inch ford at the end of this month, but now that I think about it I might not and I am going with the new Dana 44. if you want more info give me a call at 734-968-6455 i cant post the info on the forum i already got in trouble for it
What you should do is get the new Dana 44 case. Its all CNC cut with billet main caps with ARP bolts, and the new Dana cover to help keep the main caps from moving and some chrome molly side yokes and a spool.
I have to drop my car off at a pro shop to get it back half with a 9 inch ford at the end of this month, but now that I think about it I might not and I am going with the new Dana 44. if you want more info give me a call at 734-968-6455 i cant post the info on the forum i already got in trouble for it
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,726
Likes: 24
From: Freehold, NJ
Originally Posted by ski_dwn_it
As for setting them up, they are no more difficult than the regular carrier.
Last edited by Eric Fischer; Jan 18, 2005 at 01:42 PM. Reason: typo
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,246
Likes: 1
From: SouthBend IN
red,
why would you get in trouble for giving info to help address the issue ? All of us gives names and recommendations of non supporting vendors on here all the time, not to take buisness away from our vendors, but to help other members get quality parts at a good price. A converter is the perfect example. Ask whick is best or prefered and you'll get a list of 5-7 converter companies, I doubt all if any of them support the forum. If i'm wrong on this please correct me.
So who makes this and how much ?
Mike
why would you get in trouble for giving info to help address the issue ? All of us gives names and recommendations of non supporting vendors on here all the time, not to take buisness away from our vendors, but to help other members get quality parts at a good price. A converter is the perfect example. Ask whick is best or prefered and you'll get a list of 5-7 converter companies, I doubt all if any of them support the forum. If i'm wrong on this please correct me.
So who makes this and how much ?
Mike
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,284
Likes: 4
From: Canton MI
Originally Posted by mike 1985
red,
why would you get in trouble for giving info to help address the issue ? All of us gives names and recommendations of non supporting vendors on here all the time, not to take buisness away from our vendors, but to help other members get quality parts at a good price. A converter is the perfect example. Ask whick is best or prefered and you'll get a list of 5-7 converter companies, I doubt all if any of them support the forum. If i'm wrong on this please correct me.
So who makes this and how much ?
Mike
why would you get in trouble for giving info to help address the issue ? All of us gives names and recommendations of non supporting vendors on here all the time, not to take buisness away from our vendors, but to help other members get quality parts at a good price. A converter is the perfect example. Ask whick is best or prefered and you'll get a list of 5-7 converter companies, I doubt all if any of them support the forum. If i'm wrong on this please correct me.
So who makes this and how much ?
Mike
the case is = 1150$ empty
the case with gears = 1600 any gear size without spool
if you wan the spool take off 300$ from the 1600 because you have to get your own spool.
they also have cover for 800$
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,847
Likes: 293
From: Boston, Dallas, Detroit, SoCal, back to Boston MA
Rather than a spool or a 9in, I'm waiting for Quaife to come out with thier torque biasing differential for the C4 Corvette. They currently sell one for the D44 in the Viper, as a matter of fact that's how the Vipers in SpeedGT do so well, according to Archer it's worth a full second per lap. It's also the diff most other street modified cars are running at the autocross.
The one in the Viper is rated at 700ft-lbs, and get this
http://www.quaifeamerica.com/differentials/diffs.htm
The one in the Viper is rated at 700ft-lbs, and get this
The Quaife ATB Differential comes with something else other's don't have: a Limited Lifetime Warranty. This warranty applies even when raced !
Racer
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
From: triangle NC
The tru trac uses worm gears similar to the quaife and torsen, but Im guessing that since I have never gotten an answer about putting a different style differential in the c4 d44 that it hasnt been done. The trutrac is cheap enough and I have an engineering machine shop at my disposal, so maybe Ill give it a try.