CAJUN ZZ4

Thanx Guys...
I think my leak is the Hose Assy' that connects to the back of the Compressor..one side to the Accumalator then routes to the Condenser.must be expensive..but it is 21 Years Old.Any suggestions on where to get mine either repaired or a New one..?
I'll try GM as well.

blown66

I have an old Suburban with dual air that is 134a converted and works great. I also used Freeze 12 and the correct oil in a street rod and it has been trouble free as well.

rrubel

You know, I kinda resent your statements. Nobody's trying to be cheap for cheap's sake from what I see here. The point is that

a) it's hard to get R12 (illegal without a license, though they're easy to get) so you can't do your own work.

b) R12 won't be around forever.

c) R12 in a car is environmentally irresponsible because car AC systems leak over time.

d) If I'm looking for a leak, I need to keep adding refrigerant with dye until I find it. In the meantime, nice unhealthy R12 that's SUPPOSED to be captured is leaking to the atmosphere.

e. I have yet to meet someone who's satisfied with a 134a conversion in terms of system effectiveness.

What's so dangerous about these products and why are they not worth a hoot? Instead of just spouting off, TELL US WHY. That's why we're asking, and you so far are the only admitted AC-certified person to speak up here.

[RICHR]

Tom Piper

I've checked the outlet temperature of both my 2002 Ford Ranger with R134a and my '92 Corvette with R12 -- they are the same at 40 degrees in Florida on a 92 degree day.
So, I don't believe a system designed for R134a is any less efficient than a system that was designed for R12. Now, a system that was designed for R12 that is converted to R134a may not work as well.

I decided to look ahead for my '92 (since I intend to keep it). In case GM decides to discontinue the parts, I bought most of the parts for a '95 LT1 A/C system (a '95 system is designed from the ground up for R134a) -- and these parts are a "drop in" fit in my '92 -- I'm talking the entire system here.
When I no longer can put R12 in my existing '92 system, it will have a new, properly designed (hoses, evaporator, condenser, compressor, expansion valve, control switches, accumulator, and hose connectors) R134a system in it.

But, in the meantime, I'm still running the original R12 (with no leaks at this time) in the system after 13 years, and I have about 40 small cans and half of a 30 lb can of R12 left.

As far as other R12 conversions....I don't like ANY of the "blends." The molecules of the different components in a blend are a different size, and they can leak at different rates. Then the "blend" no longer has the same percentage of components in it and is not the same blend.
The best way to "add" to a blend is to completely evacuate the system and recharge it to maintain the same blend.


Tom Piper

information junkie

i have used freze12 in one of my vehicles and found it to work just as good as r12. the nice part is there is no expensive retrofiting, all you do is add it to your r12 system. it is totally compatable with the r12 if there is any left. as far as any other products i dont know, but i personally prefer to use freze12 over converting over to 134a. This is just information i have gathered in personal experience and through working in the ac industry for awhile.
for your hose any shop that specializes in ac system repair should have the equipment to either repair your hose or even to just make a new one using yours as a pattern.

Chris_G

rrubel,

Tom Piper pretty much covered all the bases. If it helps the situation any I'm also certified, Master HVAC (VA),Universal Reclaim, and MACS.

What I didn't see mentioned was some of these products may contain butane. Yes, Butane...not something I would want in my car in a crash.

Also, if I were looking for a leak I would not use refrigerant. I would more than likely use nitrogen. If it was a small leak that happens over a long period of time (a season) then dye would be a good way to go.

I hope this helps a bit.

Red Tornado

When I was at Corvettes at Carlise last summer, I picked up a flyer from "The Freon Don", who sells this stuff called "ENVIRO-SAFE".......supposed to be 32% more efficient than R-12, and a direct replacement for R12, R134a, R22, R501/502/503. Its some sort of "non toxic" refrigerant, endorsed by Greenpeace.

Anyway thats what the flyer says. Their phone is (215)632-4470.

JAKE

Take a vacation to Mexico and bring back a couple of cases in your luggage. Two birds with one stone.

Only a few dollars a can there.

Jake

JCAIRE2

To the best of my knowledge, R12 is still manufactured, just not in the U.S./ Canada, or any other country that signed some treaty dealing with the ozone hole.

Carl Johansson

I know a bunch of guys in Las Vegas are running propane as the coolant. The AC blows very cold - don't know how safe it is - or how they did it.

RED92LT1

I had a local shop top off my R12 system with R414. This shop has been doing this for 2 years and he says it's compatible with R12 and he has not had any problems with it.

So far my system is colder then it's ever been ... but as for the long term I'll have wait and see.


Brian

Chris_G

Hi Brian,

I just wanted to chime in again.... I think this may be R409? Anyway, more than likely it's a blend. Please see Tom Pipers post. You're right, it's awesome

The problem is most auto units do leak around the compressor shaft seal. So, the correct way to re-charge the unit is to evacuate it and totally recharge it when you use a blend. I think what Tom was refering to was fractionalization.

I was just wondering about these guys using propane??? Thats a new one for me?

rrubel

Tom's explanation helped, certainly more than the one I was ranting at...

Agreed . This is one reason why I'm asking about Freeze-12 in particular, since it's touted as being non-flammable (unlike most of the other products I've seen advertised). Though I guess it'd be a good thing for a smoker whose cigarette lighter has stopped working... add an in-dash BIC lighter .

I'm not sure yet how quick the leak is; the car had some amount of AC, then got stored for the winter, got an engine rebuild, and then a year later had 1/2 a lb of Freon left in the system. My mechanic will be handling the initial finding of the leak, though I'll probably repair and recharge (with non-R12) the system myself. I've done simple repairs/recharges of R12 (before the ban) and R134a systems in the past, so I'm comfortable with that. I really do not want to convert the system, though, unless it would cost less to buy a whole setup that was originally for 134a like Tom Piper is planning to do.

Ok, there. I finally used the "c" word.

Thanks for the info.
[RICHR]

Chris_G

rrubel,

I personally would not want to change out coils. The reason why the coils have to be changed (larger) is because 134 is not as effective r12.

If it were me, I would not use R134 but use the R409 blend and take my chances. I'm using this stuff in my refrigerator and it works well. But, my refrigerator is hermetically sealed.

I'm not all that familair with all the new stuff hitting the markets these days. All I can say is most of Duponts stuff has a proven track record and would not have a problem using it. It usually goes by the "SUVA" brand.

If I can help you in any way, give me a yell.

white90conv

When I got my '90, I called the dealer and asked if there was a kit to convert my system to R134a. They said the that there was no such kit and that GM said to simply recharge with R134a. There is also an EPA document that says that R134a works well in R12 systems. I recharged my system with R134a and it works flawlessly. It works much better than new A/C systems in some foreign cars I have experienced. I live in the SF Bay area where the temperature is rarely above 95F so it is possible that it will be marginal in some very hot areas. It works fine at 95F. Initially, I overcharged the system and I did have a problem. You need less R134a than you do R12. I ended up using about two cans.

SunCr

Get your R12 (608) license at www.epatest.com or any of the sites at the www.epa.gov site. Buy R12 at Autozone or check EBAY or do a Google search. If you haven't bought any R134 lately, it's now about half of what R12 costs - 6 bucks a can versus 12 bucks for R12 (the last avg price I paid at Autozone). In any event, gas should be the least of your concerns as your Vette's a/c probably needs a lot more work to make it right and the gas will be the least expensive item you replace.

As to hydrocarbons, they can be flammable and there's an outright ban in at least 18 States. You can find which ones on the EPA site.

Freeze 12 and some of the others are pretty much R134 so using them and creating a system that no one will touch doesn't make much sense.

Chris_G

The last time I bought R12 in the cans it was about $20. Now, no one sells the stuff I'm still working off of my private stash

Tom Piper

Anyone want to buy my stash (about 40 small cans and somewhere between 10 -15 lbs of a 30 lb can) of R12?

If I sell it, I will just switch my '92 to the complete '95 R134a system as I posted above.

Tom Piper

Tom Piper

Just out of curiosity, would that be illegal? And, what is the fine?

Tom Piper

Chris_G

I'd like to buy it You're supposed to have a ticket to buy this stuff but we're all friends Yes, I have a ticket