Thinking a lot about Prototype ZR-1s lately
11-25-2007, 09:29 PM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Thinking a lot about Prototype ZR-1s lately
I checked through a bunch of the old pages and saw a thread about a prototype Z that a member on here found at a mechanic's shop. He was told that it was not for sale and someone had even offered $250,000 for it! I knew these cars would have an impressive value but had no idea that much was possible. Probably due to it being a "ain't no such" Corvette like the 83' model.
Anyway, I was looking to learn everything I could about them and I also had some questions maybe someone could answer. Why were the proto models rated at 380hp and the 90 models rated 375hp? What changes to the engine took place following the public release? Is it possible that any of these escaped the crusher? I've seen one in the UK which was originally white but whoever found it repainted it yellow. Some of you probably know the one I'm talking about, there's even a website for it in one of these threads a few pages back. That Corvette was a normal bodied Corvette with the circular tail lights and concave bumper.
I've heard stories of old L-88 engines destined to be destroyed that turn up missing, just wondering if the same could be said about these cars. How much do you think one of these would go for in today's world and the whole Barrett-Jackson craze? Last question: From a collector's standpoint, which would you rather have, the prototype Z or the 95 Z?
Also, if anyone can link me or direct me to a site with more info on these cars, I'd appreciate it.
Oh and can someone clear up this rumor/possible truth. I've read in a cylinder head thread or two here on Corvetteforum about how experimental 4 valve heads where designed and tested on the L-98 but junked. Supposedly, some of these weren't destroyed and found their way into a few street Corvettes.
EDIT: Ugh, curse these ads!
Anyway, I was looking to learn everything I could about them and I also had some questions maybe someone could answer. Why were the proto models rated at 380hp and the 90 models rated 375hp? What changes to the engine took place following the public release? Is it possible that any of these escaped the crusher? I've seen one in the UK which was originally white but whoever found it repainted it yellow. Some of you probably know the one I'm talking about, there's even a website for it in one of these threads a few pages back. That Corvette was a normal bodied Corvette with the circular tail lights and concave bumper.
I've heard stories of old L-88 engines destined to be destroyed that turn up missing, just wondering if the same could be said about these cars. How much do you think one of these would go for in today's world and the whole Barrett-Jackson craze? Last question: From a collector's standpoint, which would you rather have, the prototype Z or the 95 Z?
Also, if anyone can link me or direct me to a site with more info on these cars, I'd appreciate it.
Oh and can someone clear up this rumor/possible truth. I've read in a cylinder head thread or two here on Corvetteforum about how experimental 4 valve heads where designed and tested on the L-98 but junked. Supposedly, some of these weren't destroyed and found their way into a few street Corvettes.
EDIT: Ugh, curse these ads!
Last edited by 1985 Corvette; 11-25-2007 at 09:32 PM.
11-25-2007, 10:11 PM
#2
Team Owner
For much of the historical and informational stuff on ZR-1's, I recommend you get a copy of "The Heart of the Beast" by Anthony Young.
You can find it on Amazon .com or from the Corvette Museum if still avail.
You can find it on Amazon .com or from the Corvette Museum if still avail.
11-25-2007, 11:20 PM
#3
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
In the meantime if anyone has anything they know about them to offer to tide me over til' a week from now, post up.
11-25-2007, 11:20 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
No question it would be the prototype. Tyler's 88 is so nice. He found another one at a school but it was immediately snatched up.
If I remember correctly GM wanted to use the L98 block but Lotus said no.
If I remember correctly GM wanted to use the L98 block but Lotus said no.
11-25-2007, 11:28 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
You have confused a few stories so maybe the following will help.
In the ZR 1 development cycle there were:
1. Mules This term is generally appplied to a narrow bodied corvette that has the LT5 engine and in some cases a ZF six speed. These were built in 86 and 89. One 86 was reconstructed from cars/parts found in the graveyard in England(Currently has a Phase one LT 5). There were 20 mules built in 89 of which 3 survive, 2 at the Heritage Museum and one in private hands.
2. Prototypes. These are cars that were built on the production line as a ZR 1. 24 were built in 1987 with 1988 vins. The 1988 cars had the Phase 2 LT 5. Two have survived, one found crushed in the graveyard and is being reconstructed. The second is mine and was never crushed and never left the states. In 89 and later years a prototype was built to test the production line procedures.
3. Pilot cars. These were the 89 ZR 1s that were used for promotion and testing in 1989. At least 3 of these survive all owned by GM/Heritage Museum.
In June 2006 I found 1989 pilot ZR 1 s/n 4 at a technican training facility in Florida. They had used the car since 1990 to train ZR 1 technicans and also shown it at local auto shows. One year someone saw the car and called the School Board (the school is a part of the school system) and offered $250,000 for the car. It was turned down since they did not have title for the car.
Tyler
In the ZR 1 development cycle there were:
1. Mules This term is generally appplied to a narrow bodied corvette that has the LT5 engine and in some cases a ZF six speed. These were built in 86 and 89. One 86 was reconstructed from cars/parts found in the graveyard in England(Currently has a Phase one LT 5). There were 20 mules built in 89 of which 3 survive, 2 at the Heritage Museum and one in private hands.
2. Prototypes. These are cars that were built on the production line as a ZR 1. 24 were built in 1987 with 1988 vins. The 1988 cars had the Phase 2 LT 5. Two have survived, one found crushed in the graveyard and is being reconstructed. The second is mine and was never crushed and never left the states. In 89 and later years a prototype was built to test the production line procedures.
3. Pilot cars. These were the 89 ZR 1s that were used for promotion and testing in 1989. At least 3 of these survive all owned by GM/Heritage Museum.
In June 2006 I found 1989 pilot ZR 1 s/n 4 at a technican training facility in Florida. They had used the car since 1990 to train ZR 1 technicans and also shown it at local auto shows. One year someone saw the car and called the School Board (the school is a part of the school system) and offered $250,000 for the car. It was turned down since they did not have title for the car.
Tyler
11-26-2007, 12:33 AM
#6
Drifting
You have confused a few stories so maybe the following will help.
In the ZR 1 development cycle there were:
1. Mules This term is generally applied to a narrow bodied corvette that has the LT5 engine and in some cases a ZF six speed. These were built in 86 and 89. One 86 was reconstructed from cars/parts found in the graveyard in England(Currently has a Phase one LT 5). There were 20 mules built in 89 of which 3 survive, 2 at the Heritage Museum and one in private hands.
2. Prototypes. These are cars that were built on the production line as a ZR 1. 24 were built in 1987 with 1988 vins. The 1988 cars had the Phase 2 LT 5. Two have survived, one found crushed in the graveyard and is being reconstructed. The second is mine and was never crushed and never left the states. In 89 and later years a prototype was built to test the production line procedures.
3. Pilot cars. These were the 89 ZR 1s that were used for promotion and testing in 1989. At least 3 of these survive all owned by GM/Heritage Museum.
In June 2006 I found 1989 pilot ZR 1 s/n 4 at a technician training facility in Florida. They had used the car since 1990 to train ZR 1 technicians and also shown it at local auto shows. One year someone saw the car and called the School Board (the school is a part of the school system) and offered $250,000 for the car. It was turned down since they did not have title for the car.
Tyler
In the ZR 1 development cycle there were:
1. Mules This term is generally applied to a narrow bodied corvette that has the LT5 engine and in some cases a ZF six speed. These were built in 86 and 89. One 86 was reconstructed from cars/parts found in the graveyard in England(Currently has a Phase one LT 5). There were 20 mules built in 89 of which 3 survive, 2 at the Heritage Museum and one in private hands.
2. Prototypes. These are cars that were built on the production line as a ZR 1. 24 were built in 1987 with 1988 vins. The 1988 cars had the Phase 2 LT 5. Two have survived, one found crushed in the graveyard and is being reconstructed. The second is mine and was never crushed and never left the states. In 89 and later years a prototype was built to test the production line procedures.
3. Pilot cars. These were the 89 ZR 1s that were used for promotion and testing in 1989. At least 3 of these survive all owned by GM/Heritage Museum.
In June 2006 I found 1989 pilot ZR 1 s/n 4 at a technician training facility in Florida. They had used the car since 1990 to train ZR 1 technicians and also shown it at local auto shows. One year someone saw the car and called the School Board (the school is a part of the school system) and offered $250,000 for the car. It was turned down since they did not have title for the car.
Tyler
You forgot 4. Engineering car's
Can you tell us what those were about?
Thanks,
Ron
11-26-2007, 02:00 AM
#7
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Tyler, thankyou for the information and I didn't expect a forum to actually have one of these. Care to explain the differences in the various phases of the LT-5?
Care to explain the differences in the various phases of the LT-5?
11-26-2007, 02:07 AM
#8
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: altered state
Posts: 81,242
Received 3,043 Likes
on
2,602 Posts
St. Jude Donor '05
11-26-2007, 07:54 AM
#9
Melting Slicks
Also did not mention the active suspenssion cars which could be a separate catagory. I think there are 3 of these in GMs hands. The 2 found in Calif a couple of years ago have been recovered.
Phase 1 motors were the first running units with questionable durability Built at Lotus as engineering test engines. Picture above is a Phase 1 motor, many one of items.
Phase 2 motors again built at Lotus much closer to the production motor but had single row timing chain that caused a lot of problems. Approx 50 motors were built. The last 2 were modified to accept the duplex chains and were the motors that passed the 400 durability testing for acceptance by GM
Phase 3 motors were the production units built by Mecury Marine.
The best explanation is in Heart of the Beast.
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/prototype/87_89pd.jpg
Oh yeah, there are 2 reconstructed 89 pilot cars, one belongs to Mike Yeager of Mid America and the one built for Joe Robuck.
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/prot...graveyard1.jpg
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/prototype/active5.jpeg
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/prot...typesStory.doc
Phase 2 motor.
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/prot...hase2motor.jpg
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/prototype/tshirtzr1.jpg
Tyler
11-26-2007, 11:47 AM
#10
Le Mans Master
However, you have to factor in the price. A pristine '95 Z for $50k or a prototype for $250k, and well I'd rather put $50k at risk on a shaky investment (a car) than $250k. And if it didn't pan out, at least you could still just go drive the '95.
11-26-2007, 04:59 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
They were 89 Pilots, one of which, a yellow one, has been on display at the NCM. A side note, all the GM pilot, prototype etc cars on display actually belong to the GM Heritage Museum. Because of legal issues GM will not release title to these vehicles to the NCM as 'they could be sold to the public'.
The collector question and answer is pretty good but sometimes what you know and what you can afford just do not come at the same time. I have had the opportunity to buy some special corvettes that I knew were going to be worth a lot of money some day but I did not have the cash even though they were a steal at the time. The 88 came avaliable during a 6 month peroid that I could afford it, before or after, it could not have happened.
Tyler
The collector question and answer is pretty good but sometimes what you know and what you can afford just do not come at the same time. I have had the opportunity to buy some special corvettes that I knew were going to be worth a lot of money some day but I did not have the cash even though they were a steal at the time. The 88 came avaliable during a 6 month peroid that I could afford it, before or after, it could not have happened.
Tyler
Thanks
11-26-2007, 06:17 PM
#15
Drifting
Isn't there a prototype out there that's being restored? I thought I read about a guy who had found the wrecked remains of one and had since bought an '88 or '89 L98 donor car to get it back to running order.
I'm not sure if it was the white one in the graveyard pic, all I remember is seeing the top of the LT5 with a big hole in it with the Vette on its side...
I'm not sure if it was the white one in the graveyard pic, all I remember is seeing the top of the LT5 with a big hole in it with the Vette on its side...
11-26-2007, 07:05 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
Isn't there a prototype out there that's being restored? I thought I read about a guy who had found the wrecked remains of one and had since bought an '88 or '89 L98 donor car to get it back to running order.
I'm not sure if it was the white one in the graveyard pic, all I remember is seeing the top of the LT5 with a big hole in it with the Vette on its side...
I'm not sure if it was the white one in the graveyard pic, all I remember is seeing the top of the LT5 with a big hole in it with the Vette on its side...
http://www.eurovettes.com/zr1_story.htm
11-26-2007, 07:30 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
You're thinking of this one:
http://www.eurovettes.com/zr1_story.htm
http://www.eurovettes.com/zr1_story.htm
Yes there is another 88 prototype being restored.
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/prot...WreckFront.jpg
Was shipped to the states this summer and owner is having a workshop built and will restore it. It is EX1044 one number after mine EX1043.
It is being restored by Geoff Jeal who got it from the graveyard with those mentioned in the previous link. This car was found with a prototype 4 bolt block for a motor.
He has the body parts from one of the 88 ptypes that were cut up here in the states in the late 80 early 90s.
Tyler
Last edited by Tyler Townsley; 11-26-2007 at 07:33 PM.
11-26-2007, 08:59 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
I remember going to look at two cars that were just broght into the the US still sitting at a pubilc storage place. One was the 89 Blue/Blue of that now belongs to Mike Yeager and the other 88/89 Pearl White/Red that Joe Robuck bought and the Tuckers restored. I looked at these cars before either bought them. They didn't even know the the white car was pearl white until I pointed it out. They were truley a sight to see in their crushed state. I have a copy of the bill sheet to the pearl white car some where in my office. It had King of the Hill written on the bill sheet.
11-26-2007, 11:04 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
I remember going to look at two cars that were just broght into the the US still sitting at a pubilc storage place. One was the 89 Blue/Blue of that now belongs to Mike Yeager and the other 88/89 Pearl White/Red that Joe Robuck bought and the Tuckers restored. I looked at these cars before either bought them. They didn't even know the the white car was pearl white until I pointed it out. They were truley a sight to see in their crushed state. I have a copy of the bill sheet to the pearl white car some where in my office. It had King of the Hill written on the bill sheet.
Tyler
11-26-2007, 11:10 PM
#20
Drifting
You're thinking of this one:
http://www.eurovettes.com/zr1_story.htm
http://www.eurovettes.com/zr1_story.htm