ttt

 

I say thank you for the response. We now can get the other side of the story which is great for all of us.

And here is a bit more to the story. Geoff Jeal, Bill Kirchhofer, and I all met in Las Vegas in '98 or '99 to discuss among other things, the header issue. The headers we had built in England were killing us in cost and we were looking for an American manufacturer. Bill brought some bits with him to Las Vegas and we discussed some of the stuff we liked and some we disliked. Bill then indicated that he was told production costs were to be somewhere around $550 a set. This is MUCH cheaper than what we had been paying for headers.

I suppose Bill later went back to Stainless (I was unaware who he was dealing with at the time) and made some changes and a prototype set was made. My first chance to look at them was when I went to Louisville to assemble the 724 Hp 415 motor. At that time we used the prototypes at the engine dyno. It's been a while but I can't remember exactly what was needed to get things to work right but everything was there basically. The main and perhaps ONLY complaint was with the poor quality of the welds at that time. Only guessing here, but I think that is why Bill wanted the headers in bits and he would get a better welder to build them. At that time I told him people don't give a rats-butt about welds... whatever... The price of production also rose too. I think Bill was telling me somewhere in thew $650 to $700 range. This was alarming to me because if you don't make at least a couple hundred on each set sold it really isn't worth your time. My original intention was to have a set of headers the same price as Watsons but a much better quality. I never liked selling headers at a high price and now these were going up. Basically, for a year I was on both Geoff's and Bill's case about headers.

Spring forward to today. I was recently talking to Bill about things and the subject of headers came up. He told me about going to the PRI show and stopping by the booth. He talked about their meeting and also mentioned to me about paying for the jigs and not having anything. I told him I would go get them but he sorta dropped it there.

So basically, with his information and this information the picture becomes more clear.

I don't know how bad the prototype headers were actually. Bill now has them on his car and has been running them for a year. I know he had to fabricate the header to exhaust bits but nothing on the header itself.

I appreciate the extra information filling in the holes.

 

As is always the case, there is two sides to the story. We are just fortunate to have a U.S. source for LT-5 headers.

Hey ZR1, I know how much you enjoyed replacing my clutch with the stock exhaust. :) Since you suggested headers before the next clutch job, now seems like a good time. I've got a case of Coors with your name on it. :cheers:

 

any advice on dealing with the EGR connection on a 95 with watson headers??? should I tap a bung and hook up the tube, or just cap it off and call it day. see above.

thanks gents.

 

If you ditch the EGR you will need to turn it off in the prom. Not a big deal really but still you will need to or you will set a code.

 

hmmm... sounds like a good deal, I'm getting a new prom burned to match the headers. any disadvantage to turning the EGR off?? I will probably cap it and leave the pipe coming up to make it look like it's still hooked up.

thanks!!!!

 

When I put my Jeal headers on the chip was not changed and it sets no codes. EGR was removed.

Tyler

 

thanks tyler, jim. my real question is SHOULD I go through the trouble to connect the EGR. from what I understand, EGR isn't really such a bad emissions control, and can help part throttle, idle, and shuts off at WOT anyway. kinda looks like a PITA to do it, so I'm leaning towards just capping off the tube and call it a day.

sorry for all the questions, it's how I learn about the beast. you guys are very kind to share your many years of wisdom and I appreciate it!!!

hope to see you all in BG. if I get the headers done by then, the 95 will come with (more comfortable, needs a good dragstrip flogging), if not, the 90 will come down (hoping to sell it soon, but I'm not gonna give it away).

c u there!!! :yesnod:

 

ZR1:

Is this for post 90 cars or ??? I simply unplugged my EGR pump(just forward of the drivers front tire) when the headers were installed and I've had no code, no performance issues, nothing.. I think several others here have installed headers without setting codes; Avi(1990) Jon R.(1992) didn't have to reprogram the chip either I don't believe.. Perhaps it's a 405hp thing???

 

I thought only the 93-95 cars had an egr valve. Am I wrong?

 

correct. the 93-95 went to a linear EGR system that has a flex tube running from the pass side header up to the side of the intake plenum.

I'm thinking of unplugging all that and just making up a nice little alum block off plate. when the emissions guys look, I will hang it back on there.

doesn't seem to be any downside to operating the car without egr.

I think the LT5 deserves only fresh air/fuel anyway. will this help/hurt the carbon build up problem. since I jam mine regularly this has NOT been a big problem. you guys should see the crud wad clouds these things shoot out on the dyno when they haven't been "properly cleansed" by some frequent high RPM operation!!! each pull got a bit stronger even though the engines were pretty hot.

I think the computer is compensating a bit for the higher load too. next dyno pull I do I'm going to run 104 octane unleaded race gas just to see what difference it makes. should be fun!!!

we will do another VA dyno day soon, I'll post here and on the Southeast when we go for it.

thx. :jester