C4 ZR-1's are yesterdays news
10-11-2011, 10:06 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
C4 ZR-1's are yesterdays news
I was at a local dealership looking over a 2010 Z06 that was on the used lot. For sh.ts and grins I asked what a 91 ZR1 with 19k was worth. I was surprised with the answer, it went something like this:
"The old C4 ZR-1's are yesterdays news, antique technology compared to the new Z06's and ZR1's. Even a standard vette would eat them for lunch. He went on to say about how impossible it is to get parts for those relics. He also quipped "if you had a C4 Gransport with LT4 I might be interested" and mentioned how rare they are. Then the killing blow, "the bottom is falling out of the C4 ZR1's on ebay and everywhere else, no one wants them."
Well, as a proud current C4 ZR1 owner and lover I was a bit insulted. Granted, what would I expect, I am dealing with a used car salesmen. Not that I would trade the ZR1 for the Z06 but was just considering adding the Z06 to the stable. Needless to say I left and was a little unsettled.
To a degree he was correct about the dropping C4 ZR1 values. It is a shame the original king of the hill is getting much less respect now with the newer Z06's ZR1 and the new Camaro's megahorse power.
"The old C4 ZR-1's are yesterdays news, antique technology compared to the new Z06's and ZR1's. Even a standard vette would eat them for lunch. He went on to say about how impossible it is to get parts for those relics. He also quipped "if you had a C4 Gransport with LT4 I might be interested" and mentioned how rare they are. Then the killing blow, "the bottom is falling out of the C4 ZR1's on ebay and everywhere else, no one wants them."
Well, as a proud current C4 ZR1 owner and lover I was a bit insulted. Granted, what would I expect, I am dealing with a used car salesmen. Not that I would trade the ZR1 for the Z06 but was just considering adding the Z06 to the stable. Needless to say I left and was a little unsettled.
To a degree he was correct about the dropping C4 ZR1 values. It is a shame the original king of the hill is getting much less respect now with the newer Z06's ZR1 and the new Camaro's megahorse power.
10-11-2011, 10:33 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
I watched a 1991 ZR1 on ebay go for $13K with about 40K miles on it in very good shape. The C4 platform cant compare to the C5, let alone the C6 Corvettes.
ZR1 C4 is a nice car, but its fat, expensive to modify, and cant outrun the newer LS motor in the newer vettes (cube for cube)....
I dont have any numbers to post but im confident a C5 ZO6 with 405hp will outrun a 405hp ZR1 from 93 to 95 from 0 to 60, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, full mile and even from a roll from 50 to 150. The ZR1 will beat it on top end by a few mph, but that is only because of the gearing of the cars.
Its called technology and progress.
Game over!
ZR1 C4 is a nice car, but its fat, expensive to modify, and cant outrun the newer LS motor in the newer vettes (cube for cube)....
I dont have any numbers to post but im confident a C5 ZO6 with 405hp will outrun a 405hp ZR1 from 93 to 95 from 0 to 60, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, full mile and even from a roll from 50 to 150. The ZR1 will beat it on top end by a few mph, but that is only because of the gearing of the cars.
Its called technology and progress.
Game over!
10-11-2011, 10:46 PM
#3
I watched a 1991 ZR1 on ebay go for $13K with about 40K miles on it in very good shape. The C4 platform cant compare to the C5, let alone the C6 Corvettes.
ZR1 C4 is a nice car, but its fat, expensive to modify, and cant outrun the newer LS motor in the newer vettes (cube for cube)....
I dont have any numbers to post but im confident a C5 ZO6 with 405hp will outrun a 405hp ZR1 from 93 to 95 from 0 to 60, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, full mile and even from a roll from 50 to 150. The ZR1 will beat it on top end by a few mph, but that is only because of the gearing of the cars.
Its called technology and progress.
Game over!
ZR1 C4 is a nice car, but its fat, expensive to modify, and cant outrun the newer LS motor in the newer vettes (cube for cube)....
I dont have any numbers to post but im confident a C5 ZO6 with 405hp will outrun a 405hp ZR1 from 93 to 95 from 0 to 60, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, full mile and even from a roll from 50 to 150. The ZR1 will beat it on top end by a few mph, but that is only because of the gearing of the cars.
Its called technology and progress.
Game over!
funny, when I ran a stock c5z06 in my stock 90 zr-1 I came out ahead. game over! TRUTH BOMB ALL UP IN THIS BITCH!
10-11-2011, 11:02 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
When I first saw the title of this thread I thought the OP
was the one doing the bashing. I'm glad you are on our side.
Yes, I can't believe how low ZR-1 prices are now, but bring your
car to a car event and you will still attract a crowd. And compete/
race and you will not embarass yourself (well, at least not the car).
I just got back from the Mojave Mile with Phillip (XLR8TIN) and
his ZR-1. Lots of pictures were taken of our cars and engines.
Lots of people talked to us about our unique cars and a fair
amount were somewhat knowledgeable about the ZR-1. And
our performances proudly represented the ZR-1: we beat
Challengers, Mustangs, Shelby's, and even a go-kart that went 145!
(I can't say that about the GTR though, Damn!) Yes, technology
marches on but even a stock ZR-1 is not a slouch. Modify it and
your are at the level of a modern (stock) high performance car.
Now the $$ to modify is another issue...
You have to just love it because its a ZR-1
PS I just saw pushrod-v8's post. There were stock z06's that ran
the Mojave Mile as well as our ZR-1s. When the speeds are posted
we can compare how the different cars ran.
was the one doing the bashing. I'm glad you are on our side.
Yes, I can't believe how low ZR-1 prices are now, but bring your
car to a car event and you will still attract a crowd. And compete/
race and you will not embarass yourself (well, at least not the car).
I just got back from the Mojave Mile with Phillip (XLR8TIN) and
his ZR-1. Lots of pictures were taken of our cars and engines.
Lots of people talked to us about our unique cars and a fair
amount were somewhat knowledgeable about the ZR-1. And
our performances proudly represented the ZR-1: we beat
Challengers, Mustangs, Shelby's, and even a go-kart that went 145!
(I can't say that about the GTR though, Damn!) Yes, technology
marches on but even a stock ZR-1 is not a slouch. Modify it and
your are at the level of a modern (stock) high performance car.
Now the $$ to modify is another issue...
You have to just love it because its a ZR-1
PS I just saw pushrod-v8's post. There were stock z06's that ran
the Mojave Mile as well as our ZR-1s. When the speeds are posted
we can compare how the different cars ran.
Last edited by 95ZR1; 10-11-2011 at 11:14 PM. Reason: Wanted 2
10-11-2011, 11:08 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
LOL!!!!
Like I said, im not here to bash the ZR1 but it is what it is.
Somebody give him a tissue!
Last edited by pushrod-v8; 10-11-2011 at 11:11 PM.
10-11-2011, 11:12 PM
#6
Safety Car
We still got the refinement and unique powerband aspect, but these cars are a niche collectible that compares to other 90's cars more than an absolute performance purchase.
Maybe 10 years ago they were still a viable used car purchase to compete with current offerings, but the new base C6 will stomp on any C4.
After saying all that, it's the C6 with cobwebs on it just sitting there. I even left town for 10 days and haven't even fired it up to say hello.
Maybe 10 years ago they were still a viable used car purchase to compete with current offerings, but the new base C6 will stomp on any C4.
After saying all that, it's the C6 with cobwebs on it just sitting there. I even left town for 10 days and haven't even fired it up to say hello.
10-11-2011, 11:15 PM
#7
Tech Contributor
"Technology and progress" -- "Technology and progress" -- "Technology and progress" -- yes, it's coming back to me now! Aren't those the driving forces that got us where we are today?
Some of us will purchase and play brand new Kawais because they have fast action and a bright sound. Others of us will purchase and play old Steinways.
Some of us will purchase and play brand new Kawais because they have fast action and a bright sound. Others of us will purchase and play old Steinways.
Last edited by RacePro Engineering; 10-11-2011 at 11:24 PM.
10-11-2011, 11:16 PM
#8
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2004
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St. Jude Donor '05
Hes right, and wrong.
Hell they are 20+ yrs old plenty out there thats faster.
Thats not what the ZR-1s were all about though.
not many people know about the Zs so they pass over them, rumor kills a lot of potential buyers.
It is what it is, drive and enjoy.
I hope they stay cheap, keep these fun cars within reach.
Hell they are 20+ yrs old plenty out there thats faster.
Thats not what the ZR-1s were all about though.
not many people know about the Zs so they pass over them, rumor kills a lot of potential buyers.
It is what it is, drive and enjoy.
I hope they stay cheap, keep these fun cars within reach.
10-11-2011, 11:34 PM
#9
but if you want to keep bench racing have fun.
BOOM! HEADSHOT!
10-11-2011, 11:44 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Aug 2005
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St. Jude Donor '06
According to all the technology morons out there a 2006 camry is a better car than the 65 Austin Healey 3000 I used to have
It is faster corners better etc
Same logic
I know which one I would rather have
I think some out there are still jealous of the King
Tell any of those who put down the Z to shift from 3rd to 4th at 6500 RPM and report back
Those 90s Ferraris were all inferior by that argument to the Z but for some reason you never hear that argument about them
They just dont understand
It is faster corners better etc
Same logic
I know which one I would rather have
I think some out there are still jealous of the King
Tell any of those who put down the Z to shift from 3rd to 4th at 6500 RPM and report back
Those 90s Ferraris were all inferior by that argument to the Z but for some reason you never hear that argument about them
They just dont understand
10-11-2011, 11:52 PM
#11
Team Owner
I dont have any numbers to post but im confident a C5 ZO6 with 405hp will outrun a 405hp ZR1 from 93 to 95 from 0 to 60, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, full mile and even from a roll from 50 to 150. The ZR1 will beat it on top end by a few mph, but that is only because of the gearing of the cars.
Its called technology and progress.
Game over!
technology? wrong again. Try weight differences. If both cars weighed the same, it wouldn't even be a race.
10-12-2011, 12:12 AM
#13
Chit.
Take a 1990 ZR-1 anyday.
I will mod it myself,
Run You for $5,000 cash.
Take Your money then.
10-12-2011, 12:15 AM
#14
Burning Brakes
Wrong again. Reducing weight of modern day vehicles involves the use of modern day technology, new materials, and new ways of assembling cars.
Correct, both cars do not weigh the same. The C4 ZR1 is heavier than the C5 ZO6 & C6 ZO6.
Off the factory floor with ZERO mods, the C5 ZO6 & C6 ZO6 will win with the C5 ZO6 loosing in a top speed run, but not by much.
Last edited by pushrod-v8; 10-12-2011 at 12:18 AM.
10-12-2011, 12:16 AM
#15
Melting Slicks
I was at a local dealership looking over a 2010 Z06 that was on the used lot. For sh.ts and grins I asked what a 91 ZR1 with 19k was worth. I was surprised with the answer, it went something like this:
"The old C4 ZR-1's are yesterdays news, antique technology compared to the new Z06's and ZR1's. Even a standard vette would eat them for lunch. He went on to say about how impossible it is to get parts for those relics. He also quipped "if you had a C4 Gransport with LT4 I might be interested" and mentioned how rare they are. Then the killing blow, "the bottom is falling out of the C4 ZR1's on ebay and everywhere else, no one wants them."
Well, as a proud current C4 ZR1 owner and lover I was a bit insulted. Granted, what would I expect, I am dealing with a used car salesmen. Not that I would trade the ZR1 for the Z06 but was just considering adding the Z06 to the stable. Needless to say I left and was a little unsettled.
To a degree he was correct about the dropping C4 ZR1 values. It is a shame the original king of the hill is getting much less respect now with the newer Z06's ZR1 and the new Camaro's megahorse power.
"The old C4 ZR-1's are yesterdays news, antique technology compared to the new Z06's and ZR1's. Even a standard vette would eat them for lunch. He went on to say about how impossible it is to get parts for those relics. He also quipped "if you had a C4 Gransport with LT4 I might be interested" and mentioned how rare they are. Then the killing blow, "the bottom is falling out of the C4 ZR1's on ebay and everywhere else, no one wants them."
Well, as a proud current C4 ZR1 owner and lover I was a bit insulted. Granted, what would I expect, I am dealing with a used car salesmen. Not that I would trade the ZR1 for the Z06 but was just considering adding the Z06 to the stable. Needless to say I left and was a little unsettled.
To a degree he was correct about the dropping C4 ZR1 values. It is a shame the original king of the hill is getting much less respect now with the newer Z06's ZR1 and the new Camaro's megahorse power.
I hear ya but remember in 68,69,70's people would pull into the Chevrolet dealership with their 63-67's and they were told the same thing. The day for our cars will come, like others have said these cars are not being purchased for their speed or power but the heritage and 4 cam wonders.
For that matter everything is down from where it was. So its all relative in one way or the other.
For those that bash they just don't know and more clearly don't love the cars for the road they paved to today Corvettes. Let them run their mouths, ignorance always comes out sounding jealous. Hell a 69 427/435 car won't run will todays Z06's but we still love them for what they are. I just love to listen to the older solid lifter BB cars idle, like I love to listen to our 4 cam cars run through the R's. I've driven all the Z06's in the world but none of them make me smile like an LT-5 with alittle exhaust work.
10-12-2011, 12:16 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
10-12-2011, 12:27 AM
#17
Team Owner
Wrong again. Reducing weight of modern day vehicles involves the use of modern day technology, new materials, and new ways of assembling cars.
Correct, both cars do not weigh the same. The C4 ZR1 is heavier than the C5 ZO6 & C6 ZO6.
Off the factory floor with ZERO mods, the C5 ZO6 & C6 ZO6 will win with the C5 ZO6 loosing in a top speed run, but not by much.
Correct, both cars do not weigh the same. The C4 ZR1 is heavier than the C5 ZO6 & C6 ZO6.
Off the factory floor with ZERO mods, the C5 ZO6 & C6 ZO6 will win with the C5 ZO6 loosing in a top speed run, but not by much.
So, we're talking about a lighter car with better gearing and still couldn't pull it off. Try to understand that the power band of the ZR1 "is" the technology you're missing.
If you want to argue, I suggest you argue with someone that hasn't had first hand experience. I think with hundreds of races to my credit I should know what I'm talking about.
10-12-2011, 12:49 AM
#19
I tend to look at the LT5 not as old tech, but tomorrow's tech that never was. The 405HP LT5 was a mild development of the 375HP version. Much higher HP was waiting in the wings; Lotus had a 450HP version (at 5.7L no less with a power density significantly higher than the LS7) ready for production for 1995. How long did it take Chevrolet to get the same power levels?
In fact, had it not been for the LT5, the LS-series bottom ends might not be as stout as they currently are, afterall, the LS bottom end is mostly a copy of the LT5.
The fact that you have modified LT5s out there making LS9 power (or better) NATURALLY ASPIRATED says something about the potential of the architecture that was never truly realized.
In fact, had it not been for the LT5, the LS-series bottom ends might not be as stout as they currently are, afterall, the LS bottom end is mostly a copy of the LT5.
The fact that you have modified LT5s out there making LS9 power (or better) NATURALLY ASPIRATED says something about the potential of the architecture that was never truly realized.
10-12-2011, 01:17 AM
#20
Team Owner
I tend to look at the LT5 not as old tech, but tomorrow's tech that never was. The 405HP LT5 was a mild development of the 375HP version. Much higher HP was waiting in the wings; Lotus had a 450HP version (at 5.7L no less with a power density significantly higher than the LS7) ready for production for 1995. How long did it take Chevrolet to get the same power levels?
In fact, had it not been for the LT5, the LS-series bottom ends might not be as stout as they currently are, afterall, the LS bottom end is mostly a copy of the LT5.
The fact that you have modified LT5s out there making LS9 power (or better) NATURALLY ASPIRATED says something about the potential of the architecture that was never truly realized.
In fact, had it not been for the LT5, the LS-series bottom ends might not be as stout as they currently are, afterall, the LS bottom end is mostly a copy of the LT5.
The fact that you have modified LT5s out there making LS9 power (or better) NATURALLY ASPIRATED says something about the potential of the architecture that was never truly realized.
I think the endurance world record speaks volumes of the LT-5's capacity.