Adam Boca

The National Corvette Museum does have the dyno sheets, however, GM legal has restricted us from selling copies at this time. We do not know if that policy will ever change but if it ever does, announcements will be made through the NCM Net and also http://www.corvettemuseum.com

This is all the info I have avail. I wish I could help more...

scorp508

Maybe they can give them out for free and just charge shipping? :D

Scoob

:lol:
[img]//temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/scoob//thumbsup.gif[/img]

ZR WON

Adam:

I know from a reliable source that Kevin McKay among others are *very* interested in these dyno sheets. I sincerely hope that the NCM doesn't let these important papers leave the building for some 'donation.' These documents should remain at Our Museum until all the corporate stuff settles. They are not in anyones way at the Museum currently(they are under lock and key), let's just make sure they stay safe and sound... As an aside, they are already sorted by engine number....

If you ask me, the easiest way to solve all this 'we're afraid we'll get sued if they don't dyno as high as they should' stuff is to simply have owners sign a release letter. Any lawyer(from GM, Mercruiser, etc) can draw one up that is a legal agreement that protects all parties who have these 'concerns.'


[Modified by ZR WON, 12:51 PM 9/19/2002]

SurfnSun

Surely you could just LOOK at your dyno sheet hmmmm? :)

TIMSPEED

I don't see why they wouldn't have them on *DISPLAY* at the museum, in a thing where you could punch in your VIN# and then go check it out and just LOOK at it. That'd be enough for me :D

RedZR

Gang, (and especially Brian),

Would a freedom of information request do any good?

Would that force them to release the data? If they are in the possesion of the NCM and it's a non for profit entity wouldn't they be "forced" to give us copies?

Any attorneys out there??

Dan D
1991 #921

ZR WON

Dan:

With all due respect, I don't think threatening Our Museum or General Motors is the answer; Our Museum isn't at fault and GM has bigger pockets than all of us put together. The problem we have is not Our Museum or Mercruiser if I understand the issue. It's with GM Corporate and the facts that have been mentioned previously.

There is a statute of limitations at 10 years on this stuff(I believe). Mercruiser gave Our Museum all the dyno sheets up to that timeframe(I believe they have the 90-91 dyno sheets, also pre-production cars) and was going to send the rest. I believe that's when GM got involved in the situation. I still don't know to this day if Our Museum has all the dyno sheets or not. I know that they take up a pretty significant room in the back of Our Museum and are very safe, for now.

I think what we all need to be concerned with is what is going to happen to the documents if Our Museum can't end up selling the information they contain. Will they give them to a third party for a healthy donation?(like I fear may happen if some notable Corvette personalities have their way) *That* should be our main concern. These dyno sheets are no less valuable than the original St. Louis build sheets you always here about being stored in an old railroad car somewhere. We have these documents in good hands, we need to make sure it stays that way.

If these dyno sheets make their way into private hands, rest assured one of two things will happen: 1) We'll never see them again or 2) We will all be paying a *significant* amount of money to get a copy of them. Too many people in today's Corvette society are in it for the money. You can bet if it gets into an individuals hands it will cost us dearly, one way or another. I for one still believe a release form composed by GM lawyers is the best solution to this problem. I realize this isn't a priority for Our Musuem right now but I publicly offer to do the research it would take to make it possible for us to at least view the documents. All they need to do is ask.

RedZR

>With all due respect, I don't think threatening Our Museum or General >Motors is the answer; Our Museum isn't at fault and GM has bigger >pockets than all of us put together.

Oh Brian,

You forget the first rule of business...wehn in doubt- SUE.
Seriously tho, an FOIA request is no big deal and it's not like you are suing them...actually the NCM is not really being threatened..they are being asked to make certain inf public.


Actually there is a business opportunity that presents itself here....counterfeit dyno sheets !!!!

:nono:

Bans25

I will make a $ donation to the NCM if... If someone would lets say.. make a
copy for me.. or at least sneak in there with one of those neat little pen cameras! :cool:


-Bill

Tyler Townsley

In May I tried to do some research using the build sheets filed in the NCM. I was interested in the 88 and 89 build sheets that pertain to those cars that were built as prototypes or narrow body mules. These cars were within the first 100 s/n in 88/89. Using the build sheet for my prototype as an example I knew that those with LT5 motors would have the engine information crossed out and LT5 information written in by hand. Since I knew the 88 100034-100057 were prototypes I wanted those first. I contacted Betty and at first she could not find them as thay had been misfiled but she spent some time and finally found them in the 89 files. Oh yes they wanted $30 each for them but I could get a package deal and they would be $650. Since I was doing this in preparation for an article I wanted to write for Clint on the prototypes I was rather taken back and asked Wendel what was the policy on access to information left to/on file in the NCM. I was advised there is no policy and no way to get access to ANY information on file at the NCM since there is no library function. Further I was advised that any such function is on the back burner because of the lack of funding for the NCM as a whole. Since the build sheets are a badly needed cash cow and access to them is going to cost more than I can afford an article is not looking too good. As it stands now my prototype will have a correct motor and trans installed in Jan and be on display at the Jan Winter Meet in Orlando and Bloomington in June.


Tyler
88 Prototype ZR1 # EX5014, SN 100043
90 ZR1


[Modified by Tyler Townsley, 11:42 PM 9/27/2002]

90 Corvette ZR-1

It kinda makes me mad that these arn't released. I always had a feeling that we were going to have to wait for the statute of limitations to run out before we got to see our dyno sheets. Would I like to have mine, hell ya. Can I wait to get it someday? I sure hope so. Sure one could go out and dyno the car to see what it makes, but it sure would be cool to do to a car show and show your factory dyno sheet.

Lets hope that everything gets worked out soon.

scorp508

It really sucks that the museum is going to use these to turn a profit. :(

90 Corvette ZR-1

Id rather see the NCM get the money then someone else.

Scoob

They do the same thing with the window stickers and build sheets. I don't have a problem with it as they are non-profit and need to bring in funds somehow. But how much they eventually charge for these things will be interesting.

4cefed

I am just worried that we will never get access to them. Cost is a secondary factor for me. The NCM is a non profit organization and needs reasonable avenues to raise capital. Charging for access is something that I would expect. However, the charge should be reasonable.

ZR-1DUDE

I think they should at least allow lifetime members access to that information. I thought there were plans for a library - what happened to it?

D.

Adam Boca

As much as you all are irritated in the NCM, the NCM is also VERY upset that the fact we can not distribute these records. We were given these dyno sheets in hopes to distribute them to the ZR1 owners (not just Lifetime members), we were then told after we received them (in writing from GM legal, and Mercruiser) that we could not distribute them. We do not know why. We are just as upset as you are, and we hope to be able to get them to you. But when you might ask? I do not know. I wish I did. We do not know if it will be in the next year, 5 years, 10 years or ever. We are in a bind ourselves with this issue. Rest assure, that once we get approval to distribute these, you will be the first to know!

BTW: These documents will not be distroyed, or sent back. We have full intentions on keeping these forever. No matter who you are, how much you are willing to spend, or who you know. We can not distrubute these, til we get permission.

Adam Boca
Team NCM




[Modified by Adam Boca, 12:51 PM 10/8/2002]

FU

Thank You Adam for explaining this to us.

Adam Boca

I wish I had a better explaination, but this is al I have at this time....

:D

Thanks Frank!

Adam