1%r

Well I have the larger ECS FMIC and their alky kit, where are you comming up with 30 degrees below ambient?

Shinobi'sZ

What you don't know?

Tony @ MPH

I'll admit I don't know either, other than the fact that the air/air IC is simpler to setup (no reservoir tank, pump, or extra plumbing required). I thought air/water ICs could take more abuse because the water acts as a buffer to prevent heat soak.

ICULUKN-C5

In AZ the ambient was 110 and my IAT was 70 on the methanol.

Premeth- my temps started at 140 and ended at 170
post meth- temps started at 140 and ended at 70

I spray the meth on a relocated IAT sensor.

Bill Reid

Jay,

Just a thought...

You may not see quite as much delta up North maybe because your inlet temps aren't hovering anywhere between 110 and 150F+ (on up) ambient on the hottest summer days. The asphault gets so damn hot down here these bottom feeders (C5's) just have no way lowering IAT's down enough to be effective at allowing timing to be kept in. Methanol has a cooling effect much more powerful than I had imagined before alky craze became more mainstream. I have to admit I wondered openly until I started seeing hard data come in... truely amazing.

I wonder sometimes which method of intercooling is really the best here in the Southwest. Run twin intercoolers and you are limited to the amount of space in the (former) brake duct area... on top of air flow coming across the cooler unless you are at speed. Basically you can only stuff so much core surface area inside the brake duct area. When you start turning up the wick perhaps the smaller intercoolers just can't keep up. I would like to see efficiancy numbers of ATI's new bigger twins... (edit)... and see how they perform in the dead of summer here.

Mount a big single down here and you WILL have to deal higher 240-250F coolant temps on the hot summer days in traffic.

(edit) as far as Water-to-Air intercoolers... same goes with the heat. Only (limited) proof I've seen they work is with the Maggies... and that certainly isn't a good example for the concept. Perhaps a battery relocate to the trunk and utilize the entire battery tray area for a resorvoir... maybe run twin heat exchangers (the size of intercoolers) in the place of twin intercoolers. I could see that as a potential plumbing nightmare... just thinking outside the box though... anything for lower IAT's here in the summer. Otherwise, go pro, and remove the passanger seat

Down here in the Southwest the HEAT is EVIL... period. Methanol seems to be the savior when it comes to IAT's...

Whats funny is I know the guys up North get ribbed by the guys down south (and Southwest) about having their ride parked because they can't shovel snow fast enough. Down here its the exact opposite in the summertime

Bill

Shinobi'sZ

Ok noob since you are wondering.

Here is what I know about the differences..and I welcome others to throw in their 2 cents too.

Think about application. Two Extreme examples. Lets say forthesake of arguement we shoot for at least 70% IC efficiency right.


Do you see Air to Air on Drag setups? I believe the answer is rarely and only maybe now and then. Most of the time it is Air to Water. Think about how long it takes to boil or heat up water in a pot...at least 5 mins under a direct flame right? So for every run on a drag strip cool water or on some IC designs, allow for Ice to be packed in around the tanks. The result is a cooler than ambient air temp for each run.

Do you see Air to Water on Indy 24 hours endurance races? The answer is, NO or at least not that I have seen or read. I used to frequent the Long Beach Grand Prix..never saw an Air to Water IC on one of those cars. An Air to Water IC in an endurance or road coarse event is subject to Heat Soak of the IC. If heat soaked the IC would become useless...dead weight...you know how much water weighs too? You would really be in Hot Water in an endurance race with a Heat Soaked IC offerring 0% efficiency. Air to Air can get heat soaked easily too if it doesn't have any air moving through it.

However some endurance races will use Air to Water IC. An example of this is Off Shore Powerboat racing where the ambient air temp can be warmer than Sea Water. So in this application the IC can exceed 100% cooling efficiency...very (Maximum Boost).

Now for regular use, I think both are good. I know a few guys that use Air to Water ICs on the street with good results. But is Air to Water better than Air to Air when you consider that the ambient air temp is going to remain consistant. Given a very hot climate like Arizona I would use Air to Air.

I don't have any experience driving in that climate, but I have to assume that if I had a tank of water (unless it was in an AC compartment) that same tank of water fitted somewhere on the outside of the vehicle or in the engine compartment..would not remain cool very long. It seems not only would the water get heated from hot air hitting the heat exchangers, but it would also pick up heat the same way the floor boards other parts do...can't remember right now if that is called convection or conduction..its been awhile. Either way, I think if you had your storage tank in an AC compartment of the car..you could maintain some IC efficiency.

Take a look at the PTK TT IC...they located in the rear compartment of the car...that is an AC compartment. You could make your own IC in the same location and run the line through the vehicle..that might help things keep cool.

For constant driving I prefer Air to Air but that is just my preference based on what I have read and seen on specific applications. I might try Air to Water someday...but I am not interested in it right now..everything is working too good.

I think there are Pros and Cons to both and they should be considered application specific. For me with Water to Air I would not get the benefit of having more weight added to my car and driving long drives and also stopped in traffic. It seems to me that would tend to heat the water up and the IC would not work as well..below 70%. I think I like Air to Air because it is free and doesn't add weight to the vehicle.
With Air to Air, its about placement of the IC and making sure that the aire gets forced through it. If it isn't place right..it is not efficient.

If my car was a dedicated or I at least frequented the Drag Strip, I would go with Air to Water...no DOUBT about it. I would place the Water Storage Tank in the rear of the car so the weight would be there over the rear where it is needed the most in a drag race. I would pack it full of ice and have at it.

I have not done a web search on this topic, but I am sure that if you did, you would find all the info you needed on the subject.

A comparison thread on this topic was done over on LS1tech about 1 year ago...it went back and forth..

I think my final comment was that LPE went into the 8s in the 1/4 using Air to Air......haven't seen any other C5s do that yet? But there are a whole crap load of Fbody's using those Air to Water ICs..so each to their own.

Last year at A&As Grand Opening I spoke with many individuals about Alky Injection.....it has been used for so long and was over looked in our community. I noticed a lot of the Fbody guys using it, then remembered that the Buicks were doing it before that, a then even WWII Aircraft. Its a very effective tool in controlling detonation. If I had a need for it (lived in a super hot climate) I would depend on Alky injection for my cooling combined with air to air.

1%r

Bill thanks for clearing the air on this subject.
I don't know how you folks in the West deal with the heat during the summertime.
It was 96 here in Jersey today and I was having a tough time just trying to move around.

Maybe I should hose myself down with meth and it'll cool off my IAT's!

Turbo C5

had an air to water IC on my supercharger setup, and I also don't think its a good choice for a street car. Once it gets heat soaked it takes a long time to recover, and only if you take it easy and keep air moving through it. On hot sunny days if you leave your car sitting outside for long it's heat soaked before you ever fire it up.

Bill Reid

... cooling my IAT's right now with a Hornsby's Draft Cider

Good Lord 96F ... I bet you must be swimming in the humidity

Chris@East Coast Supercharging

Is that your Internal A-hole Temps

Geneus

Only when he's passing gas...which I heard, with his stomach, is more often than not.

Chris@East Coast Supercharging

I have nothing to do with that.. Its those damn ECS burgers

Yano

WOW

Thanks guys.

This post has some AWESOME info.

I have only been driving my car at night about 50 miles per night in 60degree temps.

I am trying to get the 500 miles on the clutch by next wed. so I can take it to the strip.

I need to do the DIY oil breather fix. I drip a drop of oil onthe exhaust headers every thirty seconds.

I was at BK last night in the drive thru and there is this HUGE puff of white smoke right out my STINGER HOOD. Its kind of embarrassing, having a nice car that blows smoke every 30 seconds

I think the ECS kit has been ordered or some other kit.

Who else makes an Alky kit???

Tony @ MPH

That's just plain lewd. Everyone knows IAT means Incredibly Awesome Testes. I never miss a chance to cool down my IATs.

Shinobi'sZ

Yes I did that Noob type snorkel deal and ended up with the valve cover breather down by the steering rack...it put an end to the smoke coming out of the hood...and the smell..I hated that. I still have to figure out the way I want to address it. I kept all the PMs from people on how they resolved it...from very simple too pretty eloborate.

I still want to do a catch can with something in it to catch all the vapor between the PCV and the intake to one of the Turbos..its the only real way to maintain pull Postive Crank Case pressure out of the motor under boost. I don't want to risk oil contamination though. It really sucks or blows depending on what way you want to look at it.

1%r

Chris (AKA Buddy).... Don (AKA Jackie) you guts are just too much!

Chris my stomach is on the fritz as my car really has a stench to it. I found the dead rat you stuck in my alky tank, thanks buddy!

Don I have no comment for you at the moment as I'm at a loss for words, but you know that won't last for long.

FYI Chris it's my Internet A Hole Tuner!!

Bill Reid

You Jersey guys are too much

Bill

DOUG @ ECS

Yano,
We use a breather in the oil cap that is raised just below the hood. It holds the breather straight. No drips or smell of any kind here, plus it takes a minute to install.

and no, nobody else makes an alky kit.

RoadRebel

I do the exact same thing here.


Phil

Chris@East Coast Supercharging

Not thats worth a damn anyway