408 ?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,413
Likes: 278
From: NC
408 ?
Hey fellas,
What route would you go? 408 w/ nitrous or 408 w/ blower.
I am going to be using my vert more and more as my daily driver and wanted to hear from y'all. I think that 500/500 NA would be plenty enough for me then I could add 100 to 200 shot for the track.
Of course the KB just came out and it would very interesting to see what kind of numbers it would put down. I know some of you went w/ the F1 and are getting some awesome numbers also.
Any input/advice is welcome.
What route would you go? 408 w/ nitrous or 408 w/ blower.
I am going to be using my vert more and more as my daily driver and wanted to hear from y'all. I think that 500/500 NA would be plenty enough for me then I could add 100 to 200 shot for the track.
Of course the KB just came out and it would very interesting to see what kind of numbers it would put down. I know some of you went w/ the F1 and are getting some awesome numbers also.
Any input/advice is welcome.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,147
Likes: 32
From: Dallas TX
its personal preference
I went the nitrous route.
Making 530rwhp is more than enough for driving around and smoking most any car. There are already traction problems on street tires.
Then you have 200-300hp on reserve for when you need it. Good think about an iron block is that it can handle A LOT of nitrous setup properly.
I went the nitrous route.
Making 530rwhp is more than enough for driving around and smoking most any car. There are already traction problems on street tires.
Then you have 200-300hp on reserve for when you need it. Good think about an iron block is that it can handle A LOT of nitrous setup properly.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 2
From: Valrico Florida
Originally Posted by kumar75150
its personal preference
I went the nitrous route.
Making 530rwhp is more than enough for driving around and smoking most any car. There are already traction problems on street tires.
Then you have 200-300hp on reserve for when you need it. Good think about an iron block is that it can handle A LOT of nitrous setup properly.
I went the nitrous route.
Making 530rwhp is more than enough for driving around and smoking most any car. There are already traction problems on street tires.
Then you have 200-300hp on reserve for when you need it. Good think about an iron block is that it can handle A LOT of nitrous setup properly.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,238
Likes: 0
From: Lakeland, Center of Florida Fl
The N20 is the cheaper route as well as faster 1/4 miles times. But its not power all the time. I had N20 and got sick of fulling that bottle all the time. Plus I like the sound of a SC. Either way you will have a fast car.
Jon
Jon
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,413
Likes: 278
From: NC
Thanks guys for the input..... I agree w/ what y'all have said. 500 rwhp is enough for day to day use and the extra 200 shot will be more than enough of grunt to get me into trouble.....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,306
Likes: 5
I've gone the nitrous route and the blower route in the past. Honestly, I think a 408 with something like a 200 shot would be tough to beat. It would be a beast all motor and a good daily driver, then turn on the bottle for the dragstrip or that unexpected encounter.
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Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 4
From: Edmond OK
Yea, I had this same dilemma trying to figure out what route I wanted to go w/my 408ci. I went ahead and built an 8.8:1 motor. It only puts down 440/440 at the wheels, but it's still a joy to drive. I already had/have a nitrous setup, so it made it that much harder to decide to go FI. The things that made me decide to go FI are the fact that you could throw an F1R on my car and make 800rwhp on pump gas. Then after months of that, you could up the boost or use nitrous on top of that. There's many ways of potential. If you build an 11:1 or so motor, and you have 500+rwhp that would be great, especially w/a 200 shot. But then you're limited to the 700 rwhp. Granted you'll have an absurd amount of tq., but that's it. You'll be stuck at that power level, because Lord know's you can't slap any blower on an 11:1 motor and make it practical. There's no more room for growth. And a lot of us here on the forum are always looking for more. Plus, I got tired of people saying that I won because of the bottle. I didn't like having to rely on the bottle. They'd say to turn it off and race again. Of course I'd say to run whatcha brung, but w/FI there's no excuses, you can't turn it off. It's just there
Now if this is going to be your daily commuter, then I would highly not recommend a supercharger, the na motor would be great. But even a better compromise would be turbos because your power is obviously adjustable. But then you're looking at $10k (at minimum) more on top of the motor. My reason for FI was the room for an unlimited amount of growth, because I don't have to daily drive it, and I'm never satisfied. But by all means, a 500rwhp monster w/a 200 shot is not going to get beat by hardly anything on the street, that is for sure! It's a hard choice, take your time and way out the pros/cons.
Now if this is going to be your daily commuter, then I would highly not recommend a supercharger, the na motor would be great. But even a better compromise would be turbos because your power is obviously adjustable. But then you're looking at $10k (at minimum) more on top of the motor. My reason for FI was the room for an unlimited amount of growth, because I don't have to daily drive it, and I'm never satisfied. But by all means, a 500rwhp monster w/a 200 shot is not going to get beat by hardly anything on the street, that is for sure! It's a hard choice, take your time and way out the pros/cons.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,413
Likes: 278
From: NC
Originally Posted by oufan2929
Yea, I had this same dilemma trying to figure out what route I wanted to go w/my 408ci. I went ahead and built an 8.8:1 motor. It only puts down 440/440 at the wheels, but it's still a joy to drive. I already had/have a nitrous setup, so it made it that much harder to decide to go FI. The things that made me decide to go FI are the fact that you could throw an F1R on my car and make 800rwhp on pump gas. Then after months of that, you could up the boost or use nitrous on top of that. There's many ways of potential. If you build an 11:1 or so motor, and you have 500+rwhp that would be great, especially w/a 200 shot. But then you're limited to the 700 rwhp. Granted you'll have an absurd amount of tq., but that's it. You'll be stuck at that power level, because Lord know's you can't slap any blower on an 11:1 motor and make it practical. There's no more room for growth. And a lot of us here on the forum are always looking for more. Plus, I got tired of people saying that I won because of the bottle. I didn't like having to rely on the bottle. They'd say to turn it off and race again. Of course I'd say to run whatcha brung, but w/FI there's no excuses, you can't turn it off. It's just there Now if this is going to be your daily commuter, then I would highly not recommend a supercharger, the na motor would be great. But even a better compromise would be turbos because your power is obviously adjustable. But then you're looking at $10k (at minimum) more on top of the motor. My reason for FI was the room for an unlimited amount of growth, because I don't have to daily drive it, and I'm never satisfied. But by all means, a 500rwhp monster w/a 200 shot is not going to get beat by hardly anything on the street, that is for sure! It's a hard choice, take your time and way out the pros/cons.
Now if this is going to be your daily commuter, then I would highly not recommend a supercharger, the na motor would be great. But even a better compromise would be turbos because your power is obviously adjustable. But then you're looking at $10k (at minimum) more on top of the motor. My reason for FI was the room for an unlimited amount of growth, because I don't have to daily drive it, and I'm never satisfied. But by all means, a 500rwhp monster w/a 200 shot is not going to get beat by hardly anything on the street, that is for sure! It's a hard choice, take your time and way out the pros/cons.I have traction issues w/ 500 + rwhp so having an NA car w/ 500 rwhp is going to be enough to get me to work everyday. I'm sure I'll get bored w/ that and add some spray. If I get bored w/ 700 to 800 rwhp I'll get some turbos later.......
Will keep y'all posted.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,147
Likes: 32
From: Dallas TX
Originally Posted by oufan2929
Yea, I had this same dilemma trying to figure out what route I wanted to go w/my 408ci. I went ahead and built an 8.8:1 motor. It only puts down 440/440 at the wheels, but it's still a joy to drive. I already had/have a nitrous setup, so it made it that much harder to decide to go FI. The things that made me decide to go FI are the fact that you could throw an F1R on my car and make 800rwhp on pump gas. Then after months of that, you could up the boost or use nitrous on top of that. There's many ways of potential. If you build an 11:1 or so motor, and you have 500+rwhp that would be great, especially w/a 200 shot. But then you're limited to the 700 rwhp. Granted you'll have an absurd amount of tq., but that's it. You'll be stuck at that power level, because Lord know's you can't slap any blower on an 11:1 motor and make it practical. There's no more room for growth. And a lot of us here on the forum are always looking for more. Plus, I got tired of people saying that I won because of the bottle. I didn't like having to rely on the bottle. They'd say to turn it off and race again. Of course I'd say to run whatcha brung, but w/FI there's no excuses, you can't turn it off. It's just there Now if this is going to be your daily commuter, then I would highly not recommend a supercharger, the na motor would be great. But even a better compromise would be turbos because your power is obviously adjustable. But then you're looking at $10k (at minimum) more on top of the motor. My reason for FI was the room for an unlimited amount of growth, because I don't have to daily drive it, and I'm never satisfied. But by all means, a 500rwhp monster w/a 200 shot is not going to get beat by hardly anything on the street, that is for sure! It's a hard choice, take your time and way out the pros/cons.
Now if this is going to be your daily commuter, then I would highly not recommend a supercharger, the na motor would be great. But even a better compromise would be turbos because your power is obviously adjustable. But then you're looking at $10k (at minimum) more on top of the motor. My reason for FI was the room for an unlimited amount of growth, because I don't have to daily drive it, and I'm never satisfied. But by all means, a 500rwhp monster w/a 200 shot is not going to get beat by hardly anything on the street, that is for sure! It's a hard choice, take your time and way out the pros/cons.Turbo is a little different story but still; look at the power curve on a nitrous car versus a procharged car. Downside to nitrous is if you are doing top speed runs etc. Dont wanna be spraying a big shot in 5th gear.
I'm only getting rid of my nitrous setup if I can do a reliable turbo that will make 800rwhp on 93 octane and close to 1000rwhp on race gas.
COME ON ANDY
Last edited by kumar75150; Jul 11, 2005 at 02:03 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,147
Likes: 32
From: Dallas TX
Originally Posted by nextphasemarko
Very good post.... I am always looking for more and I have a P1SC on a h/c stock bottom end now. I just can't use the P1 on the 408 and I don't feel like spending another $6,000+ for a D1 or F1 at the moment....
I have traction issues w/ 500 + rwhp so having an NA car w/ 500 rwhp is going to be enough to get me to work everyday. I'm sure I'll get bored w/ that and add some spray. If I get bored w/ 700 to 800 rwhp I'll get some turbos later.......
Will keep y'all posted.
I have traction issues w/ 500 + rwhp so having an NA car w/ 500 rwhp is going to be enough to get me to work everyday. I'm sure I'll get bored w/ that and add some spray. If I get bored w/ 700 to 800 rwhp I'll get some turbos later.......
Will keep y'all posted.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,413
Likes: 278
From: NC
Originally Posted by kumar75150
The thing is: if you race that P1 car making 520-550rwhp against a stroker car making the same power, the NA car will destroy that blower car.
Exactly.....power under the curve is where it is at......peak power ain't chit.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,898
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by kumar75150
its personal preference
I went the nitrous route.
Making 530rwhp is more than enough for driving around and smoking most any car. There are already traction problems on street tires.
Then you have 200-300hp on reserve for when you need it. Good think about an iron block is that it can handle A LOT of nitrous setup properly.
I went the nitrous route.
Making 530rwhp is more than enough for driving around and smoking most any car. There are already traction problems on street tires.
Then you have 200-300hp on reserve for when you need it. Good think about an iron block is that it can handle A LOT of nitrous setup properly.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 2
From: Valrico Florida
The 700rwhp limit on a big motor and spray is not true. If your setup is built correctly and you set your nitrous up correctly you can make 1000rwhp. My buddy Dan has already put down 870rwhp on his 408ci and he is going to change his second stage to a progressive shot and shoot for 950rwhp. I stopped at 760rwhp because I saw no need to spray more. When I am out on the prowl on the streets I spray between 650 and 680rwhp and I blow away 800 plus rwhp Supras from a 40 to 155mph sprint.
Some of you guys seem to forget we are lighter than 75 to 90 percent of our competition. Not to mention above 100mph we have the aerodynamics advantage over our competition. Two or three stages of nitrous setup properly would give you an awesome avg tq and with that you could easily compete with a turbo Vette in a sprint from zero to 150mph depending on your gears. Above that you run the risk of spraying in 5th gear with 3.42's(Not really a good idea w/out proper tune/gas), but 3.73's to 4.10's would be ok in 5th. The horsepower I have NA will pretty much beat 95 percent of Exotics all the way to 200mph. It takes a modified Exotic to beat a well built NA C5 to 200mph. Our biggest problem is greed. Some of us need to realize we have a good base and over doing it is really a waste of money unless you plan to make that money back somehow. Also, I always hear I dont like filling up the bottle or I dont want to run race gas. If you want to go fast those are the things you have to do. Some act like you have to fill the bottle daily. Do you race everytime you get in your car? When I hear people complain about me having nitrous I laugh. That is their built in excuse and if they want to use nitrous they could. Also, I have no problem running off the bottle. My car is still capable of 128 to 132mph traps NA depending on the temps outside. The Vette is a awesome starting point. Just look at the C6. How much better is a stock C6 compared to a stock C5? I think that would depend on the driver and options on the car.
This is JMO..
Some of you guys seem to forget we are lighter than 75 to 90 percent of our competition. Not to mention above 100mph we have the aerodynamics advantage over our competition. Two or three stages of nitrous setup properly would give you an awesome avg tq and with that you could easily compete with a turbo Vette in a sprint from zero to 150mph depending on your gears. Above that you run the risk of spraying in 5th gear with 3.42's(Not really a good idea w/out proper tune/gas), but 3.73's to 4.10's would be ok in 5th. The horsepower I have NA will pretty much beat 95 percent of Exotics all the way to 200mph. It takes a modified Exotic to beat a well built NA C5 to 200mph. Our biggest problem is greed. Some of us need to realize we have a good base and over doing it is really a waste of money unless you plan to make that money back somehow.
Also, I always hear I dont like filling up the bottle or I dont want to run race gas. If you want to go fast those are the things you have to do. Some act like you have to fill the bottle daily. Do you race everytime you get in your car? When I hear people complain about me having nitrous I laugh. That is their built in excuse and if they want to use nitrous they could. Also, I have no problem running off the bottle. My car is still capable of 128 to 132mph traps NA depending on the temps outside. The Vette is a awesome starting point. Just look at the C6. How much better is a stock C6 compared to a stock C5? I think that would depend on the driver and options on the car.This is JMO..
Last edited by Vince99FRC; Jul 11, 2005 at 07:25 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,147
Likes: 32
From: Dallas TX
depending on how you do your nitrous fuel setup, you dont have to worry about running race gas all the time either
i have a seperate fuel tank for the nitrous and leave race gas in there and regular gas in the car tank for upto a 200 shot so far no problem
i have a seperate fuel tank for the nitrous and leave race gas in there and regular gas in the car tank for upto a 200 shot so far no problem
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 4
From: Edmond OK
Originally Posted by Vince99FRC
The 700rwhp limit on a big motor and spray is not true. If your setup is built correctly and you set your nitrous up correctly you can make 1000rwhp. My buddy Dan has already put down 870rwhp on his 408ci and he is going to change his second stage to a progressive shot and shoot for 950rwhp. I stopped at 760rwhp because I saw no need to spray more. When I am out on the prowl on the streets I spray between 650 and 680rwhp and I blow away 800 plus rwhp Supras from a 40 to 155mph sprint.
Some of you guys seem to forget we are lighter than 75 to 90 percent of our competition. Not to mention above 100mph we have the aerodynamics advantage over our competition. Two or three stages of nitrous setup properly would give you an awesome avg tq and with that you could easily compete with a turbo Vette in a sprint from zero to 150mph depending on your gears. Above that you run the risk of spraying in 5th gear with 3.42's(Not really a good idea w/out proper tune/gas), but 3.73's to 4.10's would be ok in 5th. The horsepower I have NA will pretty much beat 95 percent of Exotics all the way to 200mph. It takes a modified Exotic to beat a well built NA C5 to 200mph. Our biggest problem is greed. Some of us need to realize we have a good base and over doing it is really a waste of money unless you plan to make that money back somehow. Also, I always hear I dont like filling up the bottle or I dont want to run race gas. If you want to go fast those are the things you have to do. Some act like you have to fill the bottle daily. Do you race everytime you get in your car? When I hear people complain about me having nitrous I laugh. That is their built in excuse and if they want to use nitrous they could. Also, I have no problem running off the bottle. My car is still capable of 128 to 132mph traps NA depending on the temps outside. The Vette is a awesome starting point. Just look at the C6. How much better is a stock C6 compared to a stock C5? I think that would depend on the driver and options on the car.
This is JMO..
Some of you guys seem to forget we are lighter than 75 to 90 percent of our competition. Not to mention above 100mph we have the aerodynamics advantage over our competition. Two or three stages of nitrous setup properly would give you an awesome avg tq and with that you could easily compete with a turbo Vette in a sprint from zero to 150mph depending on your gears. Above that you run the risk of spraying in 5th gear with 3.42's(Not really a good idea w/out proper tune/gas), but 3.73's to 4.10's would be ok in 5th. The horsepower I have NA will pretty much beat 95 percent of Exotics all the way to 200mph. It takes a modified Exotic to beat a well built NA C5 to 200mph. Our biggest problem is greed. Some of us need to realize we have a good base and over doing it is really a waste of money unless you plan to make that money back somehow.
Also, I always hear I dont like filling up the bottle or I dont want to run race gas. If you want to go fast those are the things you have to do. Some act like you have to fill the bottle daily. Do you race everytime you get in your car? When I hear people complain about me having nitrous I laugh. That is their built in excuse and if they want to use nitrous they could. Also, I have no problem running off the bottle. My car is still capable of 128 to 132mph traps NA depending on the temps outside. The Vette is a awesome starting point. Just look at the C6. How much better is a stock C6 compared to a stock C5? I think that would depend on the driver and options on the car.This is JMO..
. But now I'm just getting into something that pretty much no one here will ever do. Bottom line, either way you can't lose! And Vince, I've seen that you've been eyeing down FI lately , but if I were you, I'd stick w/what you got until it breaks(which I'm sure that's your plan)! Your car's bad
Last edited by oufan2929; Jul 12, 2005 at 01:01 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 4
From: Edmond OK
Originally Posted by kumar75150
You can spray a 300 shot on an iron block no problem and pick up over 300rwhp depending on your setup. And a nitrous car making 700rwhp will smoke a procharged car making 750-800rwhp in a straight line race IMO.
Turbo is a little different story but still; look at the power curve on a nitrous car versus a procharged car. Downside to nitrous is if you are doing top speed runs etc. Dont wanna be spraying a big shot in 5th gear.
I'm only getting rid of my nitrous setup if I can do a reliable turbo that will make 800rwhp on 93 octane and close to 1000rwhp on race gas.
COME ON ANDY
Turbo is a little different story but still; look at the power curve on a nitrous car versus a procharged car. Downside to nitrous is if you are doing top speed runs etc. Dont wanna be spraying a big shot in 5th gear.
I'm only getting rid of my nitrous setup if I can do a reliable turbo that will make 800rwhp on 93 octane and close to 1000rwhp on race gas.
COME ON ANDY
A 300 shot...no doubt, but just to much for my liking