http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...31&forum_id=86


Well since you choose to address this publically

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I was going to send you private e-mail, but since you choose to openly scrw up your business. YOU'RE CHOICE!!!!

Anyone with a A&A motor, should check carefully in my opinion. These are built outside of Andy's shop by a third party. In my opinion and others complete P'sOS.

I heard from no less than half dozen people, that have had major issues.

I will choose to post the bill by the machine shop on the internet.

They are the ones that thought you were a complete .... up. The people that saw this taken apart, thought you were a real peice... I am just getting the bill, AGAIN. I am paying AGAIN. They are the ones that noticed me regarding the short block, THAT YOU SUPPLIED ME!! Trust me, I did not enjoy the first phone calls or the successive one as they found more problems with you're work. Guess what I found out, you're other customers get similar calls and have similar problems.

The machine shop thought you're short block was such a piece of art, that they had it completely taken down down completely!!!! The tuner would not even install it. It will be put together right this time.

1) I never put in a big cam, unless you think a .575/.575 234/234 is a big cam for 427(Cut by Cartek, suggested by Dave).
2) You intially provided me a motor with 14.5 to 1 compression. Even though I requested 10.5 to 1 compression in WRITING and in front of a witness. 270-285 lbs. per cylinder. You finally corrected that by providing "equivalent LQ9 heads." We ran a bigger gasket for the difference.
3) The motor had 6,000 miles and the rear main siezed for no reason on the dyno with very safe timing and running 185 degrees. If you say 6,000 street miles is lot over twelve months, okay.
4) Not only did the machine shop say the cam bearings were shot, but a cam cutter did (who only cuts cam blanks) and the tuner working on the car.
5) Yes, to cure you're original compression f-up, you supplied me LQ9 heads that flowed less my LS6 MTI heads. WE JUST HAD THEM FLOW CHECKED and bronze guides intalled (Another $800). Mind you the core charge is $600 different(in your favor) and I had to spent $5k EXTRA of my own money and two more months addressing you're mistake!!! Which you finally gave me 1k for. Would you like me to post the previous letters? Hmmm.
6) I paid all the fing bills last and this time!!! In fact, I prepaid most of them. I have never presented to you an unpaid bill.
7) This time. The machine shop said the mains were way to tight, the bores were not honed, the mains were not lined up, the wrong bearings were used, at least one set of USED piston rings were used, it was out of balance, there were metal shavings in the motor, even the clutch was out of balance.
8) I personally drove the short block down and back 450 miles (each way) to let you fix you're mistake. I wish I had not. I wish had sent it directly to machine shop here. It would have been a lot less time consuming. Far less costly traveling. I would had the car back a month ago. And let's not forget how much I enjoy rebuilding and paying for the short block twice. Sorry that's 3X now, plus the R&R, etc. I did this to help you out. Again, fixing you're problems.
9) As far personal comments, go fly a kite. People that know me, know that I have a A+++ character.
10) As far as comments, by others that have had work done by your shop, chts and giggles...You are a laughing stock.

You're conjecture is just that, on oversizing the motor, buying new pistons, blah blah blah. It absolutely not true. I can have a half dozen witnesses post on this board to support this, plus the bill from the machine shop. If they bought new pistons, they did not tell or bill me. I have not even seen my short block since I dropped it off and since it has been reassembled.

You charge me this time
disassemble, Hot Tank(x2), Hone(w/Plate), Check Clearances, File Fit Rings, Reassemble $680
Resize 2 Rods $40
Grind Crank, Rebalance $100
Main Bearings 87.90
Rod bearings 78.20
Plasma Moly Rings (File Fit) 190
Vlave Job, Surface Heads 350
RPS Clutch 1,095

Hey Andy, if were trying to get something for nothing then why I am paying (AND I PREPAY IN ADVANCE GENERALLY) for the exactly the same work that I paid you for!!!!! AND AGAIN!!

I was not planning on sending you the bill from the machine shop, but if you insist, I will be happy to have someone post it on the internet here.
I like paying 2 times, in your case 3 times plus the headache, Huge R&R cost, time loss, etc...

I had to come back in to your shop as I was about to leave with the short block. I had to have you re-write the bill as you forgot charge me for the clutch assembly the first time.

As far I am concerned, doing business with you is not only a huge complete waste of money, but a gigantic time suck, frustrating and ruins the complete enjoyment of the sport.

 

Your right..... Their horrible... If you have any doubts just pick up the Sept and Oct 2005 "Vette Magazine." Dont worry, you dont have to open the mag, HIS CARS ARE ON THE COVER

If anyone has any doubts about what he builds, I'll fly you out to Vegas and take you for a ride... Once your done wiping the **** off my leather seats I'll pose the question to you 1 more time...

#001,
Hopefully you get your motor problems resolved. Based on the experiences I have had with A&A I honestly dont believe that they have it in them to tear up a motor. They (Andy and Crew) are a bunch of great and compitant guys. I would trust them with ANYTHING they want to do with my car. He!! I'm shipping him my $73,000 C6 Z06 and then I'm letting him tear it apart and build it ANY way he and Charlie chooses. When it's done, I will drive 325 miles across the desert with the A/C blowing and not having a care in the world...

Good luck on your repairs..

 

Small mags are easy to get published in, but it is cool.

I have been in a number of cars that have A&A motor(s) over the last three or four years. Unless you running eights or less I probably would not get super exicted (I had three cars that could do that). I have not seen one A&A car do a nine (sure one is out there, some of them make enough dyno h.p.).

Problem, is that he sent the motor out. That machine shop contracted with him, I contracted with A&A. He did not even inspect the motor on the rebuild, nor did he even know which one was mine when I showed up. He had to go find it. It was laying in middle on shop, uncovered. Again, my contract was with A&A, not some other machine shop. This reflects poorly on A&A from my point of view.

They had a duty to me. Their machine shop had a duty to them.

Hmm. I posted things to go look out for on a motor on another thread. I did not even mention the tuner, nor is it my sig.. I get a verbal b.s. backlash. Spend more wasted time. Oh, get to pay for 3X, deal with the R&R, Pull apart an assembled short block, lose another month with my car, break it in again, etc.. Customer Service. Nice.

 

Your some thing else dud. If you knew or were what you think you are, well you would not have posted this crap. I talked with Donald last night, that's Mr Trump to you, and he never heard of you. Could it be we don't live in your little world. when you have to toot your horn that loud it most likley means you probly have a very small [horn ] In closing [ always wanted to say that] I would trust Andy [thats Mr. Green to you] with anything. Just my $ 2.5 millon net worths opinion

 

Brent - interesting how people who have never met you, done business with your, or even purchased a 429 from Andy have so much to say..

The only other comment I had seen on one of his 429's was that 'It looked like it had been through a war'.

I don't have specifics and to be honest I didn't really care and I have never repeated that. But if publicly insulting the integrity of a member is going to be fair game then I suppose it's also fair to repeat what I heard around the water cooler.

I have never seen a complaint about A&A's forged 346's, FWIW.

Mark

 

I'm not going to comment on Brent's rhetoric, I commented in the other thread and that's how I really feel. We'll work that out between us.
But the comment on the block that looked like it had " gone through a war" I will respond to. The only other big motor that I ever sold over the counter was a Darton block that was damaged in shipping. The starter mounting area was broken off ( I had it welded back on) and the deck was dinged up pretty bad.
I sold that block for really cheap with the understanding that it may or may not work. The buyer then sold it to someone else. That block did indeed look like it had " gone through a war"
Every other big motor I have built was installed right here at my shop. ( other than Brent's)
That's it.

 

I purchased to "War Zone" 429 with the understanding that it was fully functional. Andy assured me that he would stand behind his work so I took him at his word. Andy's reputation was and still is stellar. I fully intended on installing this in my personal vehicle. I only decided to sell the shortblock after coming to the realization that it (a 429 ci motor) wouldn't work without switching turbo systems. I had the block checked out and inspected locally and was assured that it would work out.

 

Andy,

1) It was never my intention to bring this matter or your shop out on the internet, you did that yourself. I did not identify any shop, nor was it in my signature. You came out swinging with both arms. Granted, I then swung back.

2) I was going to contact you via e-mail, forward the third party machine shop detailed bill that I will be getting (I have not even seen it yet). This was for your own internal Quality Assurance to kick your own machinists/mechanics in the tail, as they reflect on you/your shop personally. I have been there myself with employees/vendors many times and have had to have many internal, "discussions."

3) Andy, I am paying the bill for the same work on the shortblock myself, the work I just paid you for. Initally and in the middle of the lastest and greatest stuff, I was not planning on looking for restitution. I was just going to pay it. Still might.

After a half dozen guys shoke their heads. I got repeated calls with more and more problems. The whole short block had to be rebuilt:time & money. One can get a little irritated. I will let you know how it works out.

Discussion closed. Remind me not to **** on the side of the road, downwind from you next time, at some Corvette event. You are buying the next beer, I will buy the one after that.


Brent

P.S. Have a great day, life is to short.

 

Mr. 001 2001 Z06,

I have been a "spectator" for a couple years before I joined CORVETTE FORUM three years ago and have only seen TWO complaints regarding A&A Corvette which were both considered by us (Forum Members) to be "Crackpots"!

I personally have been an Automotive Engineer (Engine design and stress analysis at International Harvester e.i. Navistar), but for the last 33 years my profession has been that of a Real Estate Broker working with the public.

In that period, I have obsevred that on a consistent basis, about 5% of the "general public" seems to be relatively unreasonable and difficult or impossible to please! And our professional Real Estate Associations (regional and national) provide training course to assist in dealing with these people.

Andy at A&A Corvette has dealt with many many hundreds, perhaps thousands of customers on significant purchases of items such as the short block that you considered faulty, and per your and his posts you have tried unsuccesfully (in your view) to work things out satisfactorily!

Now I am certainly not privy to the details of your specific problems, but in my experience with Andy (as exemplified by my personal experience noted below), he took care of any problems 100%!

Bear in mind that Andy is one of the foremost innovators of new aftermarket performance Items for our Corvettes and not just a purveyor of proven aftermarket manufactured items, so a reasonable person should expect that he would have more problems in the development phases than say a seller/installer of historically tried and proven equipment!

You iterated several times that you had a cadre of many unsatisfied A&A Corvette customers like youself-I believe 5 or 6 from my readings of your posts to back up your claims of the poor service and ineptitude of the company. Based on my personal busines experience and statistics from other sources on general psychological profiles of consumers, I would think that there should be 50 to 100 unsatisfied customers posting on the Corvette Forum similar to your posts.

However I (a person who reviews the forum twice daily on average for information and knowledge over the last almost 5 years) have only seen three (including yours) such negative posts in the last several years!!!

Based on what I have seen of your posts, my personal opinion is that...
You don't need a "TUNER", you need a shrink!

With all due respect,

May the BOOST be with you!

Roy


A portion of my personal experience with Andy @ A&A Corvette!

Andy finished my C5R 427 F1-R in time for my Birthday…It rocks-He’s the Greatest!

The car is set up exactly the way I wanted it!

Big cubes and moderate boost built to provide lots of torque in the 3000 to 4500 rpm range. It is strictly a daily driver (my only car) and I want it to last. It is tuned conservatively for only 640 RWHP so with 427 cubes it is relatively low stressed for that output (compared to a 346 at the same output), and the short cam (224/228 .581/.588 on a 115 LSA) and 1 ¾” long tubes really bring in the torque at typical street level RPM’s. It is exactly what Andy said it would be and just what I wanted, a torque monster!!!

Andy tuned the engine so that it has perfect street machine manners-has a smooth 800 RPM idle with no lope and with it warmed up properly, you can ease the clutch out from a dead stop at idle in 4th gear and it smoothly rolls ahead! And when you hit the go pedal the thing just screams, it sling shots you ahead so violently you feel like you’re going to slide over the back of the seat into the luggage area!

I just put Nitto RII’s on 18x12’s on the rear-not drag radials but an order of magnitude better than the GY F1 Supercar or the Yoko AVS’s I had before and the lateral force in the twisties is unbelievable.

Starting like that in 4th is not a good thing to do-as the engine is not going fast enough initially to maintain the oil film wedge (at the crankshaft) and could result in metal to metal contact. The capability is there when I’m in 2nd or 3rd at a stop and I think I’m in 1st-so I don’t get embarrassed.

The LUK clutch is light as a feather smooth as silk and holds the torque! Andy replaced my chattering, heavy pedal SPEC (sea lion sounds) clutch.

Here is the Amazing part…

The development of my car has been many, many months as those of you who know me remember.
Andy took over when my Morgan Motor Sports (MMS) C5-R engine self-destructed after only 700 easy low RPM break-in miles and the MMS Company conveniently went out of business-wasting tens of thousands of my hard earned dollars!

Andy is the most conscientious and has the most integrity of anyone I have met in the automotive field or any field for that manner. He is also the most innovative person I have ever met in this field. I’ve had the pleasure of knowing Andy for over 2 1/2 years during which he has virtually worked all the bugs out of my early C5 (’97). He has done various sets of custom development work on my car taking hours and days of extra time which he has not charged me extra! I had one of the 1st custom 8 rib drives and when I had a problem he drove 50 miles to my house to correct it without blinking an eye.

Darton Sleeves supplied Andy with a faulty 427 sleeve block plus some faulty machining instructions and faulty assembly instructions-Andy had that engine in and out of my car (tuned each time) and then the block completely disassembled back and forth to Darton 2 or 3 times (each time they said it was OK and back in and out of my car (and tuned each time) 2 or 3 times before Darton finally admitted it was a faulty cracked block.

They have only recently agreed to partially compensate him for the faulty block, but not the many man weeks of his labor performing the above!

At one point a while ago, Andy said to me that he was sorry that it was taking so long (not his fault but the suppliers of the faulty block and other things, i.e. Spec clutch and other things I don’t remember) that he was going to get my car running to his and my satisfaction and he would not let me pay any more-it was on him! What that finally ended up with was me getting a C5-R short block to replace the Darton fiasco, a new LUK clutch, a front mounted IC, a heavy duty radiator/fans, and probably much more stuff that I am not even aware of!!!

ANDY STANDS BEHIND HIS WORK…MORE THAN 100%!

I have been around his shop enough to have seen other customers treated with this same concern and I have never heard of anything going out of his shop that was not right, and if it did, he would do whatever it takes to get it right for his customer! For example, in my case, Andy noticed that the 230/230 cam that he had installed in my engine because we agreed that that was the perfect cam for my style of driving in the 427 seemed a little bit more than I was comfortable with after I drove it, and so without even a second thought, he took it out and put in the 224/228 that I am ecstatic over!

In the light of the above complainer, 001 2001 ZO6, I just wanted to share my complete appreciation of my successful and continuing experience with Andy @ AandACorvette with the Corvette Forum… Thanks Andy!

May the BOOST be with you!

Roy

 

Can you tell us what kind of glue he use in hes tupe?

 

Amazing how the internet changes the scope of a shop dispute.

 

Seriously, while I appreciate the support, let's just leave this one alone. Thanks

 

Moderators, please stop this thread.

I will forward Andy the information when I get it in writing. The situation is, what it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

Roy, I know of you're experience with Andy posted here on the forum. I even posted on your thread. Again, its you're situation, not this one and has zero relevance to this. I would expect over 95% of shops customers to be happy. Sometimes cht just happens. The bigger you get, the more cht that will happen, just by the very course of doing more business and not being personally involved.

I have had modified Corvettes for quite a long time. The biggest shops on this forum have had engines sieze on multiple occasions, due to mistakes, it is how they take care of them. It does not mean it does not happen. LPE, DRM, MTI, A&A, etc... I seen three or four LPE/21CM motors sieze in my time...They took care them very quickly, quietly and took care of their customers at no expense.

 

I can't understand why a man of your apparent means (wish I had multiple "high end" Cali residences ) just wouldn't have packed your car on a trailer and sent it east to Cartek. I've read many of your posts where you have extolled the great work they do (and there's no denying they do great work...just look at the number of successful racers who use their shop/expertise). And that you know Dave and have used parts from them in the past makes it all the more curious. You yourself stated that there haven't been many cars from Andy that have run the numbers when it comes to racing. Considering that you are a "racer" (or, at least I presume so based again on your posts) why wouldn't you have chosen a shop in the first place that caters to and delivers racing results?

 

Andy, was here in California next to my home town. The car is here in California. The clear choice at the time was to do business here in California. I would have lost six-ten weeks in transit, plus had another 3-3.5k on the bill.

However, that being said, yes, I debated on having a shipping company picking up the car and having delivered to LPE, MTI, DRM, Cartek or the Vette Doctors. And yes in hindsight, would have been ahead assuming all went well.

I will send Andy the statement privately, that I get from the machine shop. When I get it. I probably will just pay the bill myself and ask for nothing. Not sure yet. Andy can deal with his machinist, who he paid.

Please lets NOT reply on this thread. SUBJECT CLOSED.