Here is a post I put in another section, not many replys, so I thought I would put it where all the real tech guys hang out. Hopefully someone can help.
I recently put an MTI hardened drivers side shaft in. Well got it all together and tried to re install the half shaft over the axle and c-clip. It will not go go on. The reason being, the machined area that the clip ridews in is not cut deep enough. It's not even as deep as the splines. So, it will not compress to allow the half shaft to slip over. Now my question, can I run (drag race) without the clip? I do have an e-mail into tech at MTI, but no response yet. I have a race this weekend, so any insight would be helpfull. Man I do not want to tear this all apart in my driveway again.

Then this reply,
I wouldn't run it without the clip. The clip don't hold much but it does locate the inner CV joint in the rearend.

I had exactly the same problem after I got my shaft installed. I checked to be sure the axle would slide over the shaft before I installed it in the rearend but that was before I installed the ring! After it was all together and back in the car the axle CV would not go back on over the ring, fit fine without the ring. What I did to solve the problem was grind down the OD of the ring, making a tad bit thinner. I just removed the ring and held it with my fingers and run it around on a 3.5" hand grinder with a fine disk. Only removing material from the outside, nothing from the inside or sides. I took my time and kept checking as I didn't want to remove too much of the ring. When you slide the CV on and hit the ring you can see a mark where you need to grind next. It didn't take much, less than I figured it would have taken (probably less than .030"), but it took probably 45 minutes grinding and trying. Once it started over the ring and was still a little tight I ground once more just to give a little extra clearance. Put it back on and it all went right together and popped in place.

Then my counter reply, with newest problem,
Well, I ground my clip down and started to take stuff apart. New problem, seems the cv (if that is what it's called) ***** and rubber inside the large ruber protecter seems to have come apart. Now the drive axle is about 1 1/2 inches off the hard axle and there is no more room to pull out (rotor is at max tilted outboard). What the %&$#. I hope this is understandable. Maybe, when trying to install by pushing banging against the clip that will not collapse, I weakend the *****/rubber carrier? I can't believe this jit. I don't have the correct tools that the book says to use either. Help
Robert

 

I'm not sure I 100% understand your post, but I suspect you have pulled the driveshaft out, while angled down, and one of the ***** has come out of the joint and jammed things up. These joints are tricky to get back together but you will certainly have to take the boot off and fuss with the ball, shaft angle, and plunge all at the same time. Not sure if you can get a replacement boot clamp though unless GM sells a boot kit which would include the clamp.

 

Yep you got it. What happened was when tring to put wheel drive shaft over c-clip on shaft that wouldn't go, I buggered up the splines a tad bit. Then the wheel drive shaft wouldn't come off, and I kept pulling/banging thinking it will come. But, instead, there is a wire clip that holds things together, about 4inches across, well this pulled off and got wedged, so the cv would not go back together. Had to get a slide hammer (this is how GM does it) and pull the wheel drive shaft off the hard shaft. Now, parts, GM has a kit with the wire clip and both seal clamps that go over boot for $90 bucks. One more thing, on the original c-clip, I was told by MTI that they install the shaft (straight from DTE) with out the clip. Too bad they don't included this info with the product. Oh well I learned a lot.
Robert

 

Interesting... You should have simply called us and we would have been glad to help you along.

We *ALWAYS* install the outboard snap ring on the output shafts in our differential builds here, but we use new snap rings, instead of the old, often worn-out and peened over stockers for this very reason you speak of.

One can still use the old snap rings if they wish, (most folks do without a problem) it just takes a bit of modification to correct them for proper fitment into the shaft after they have been worn a bit.

Either way is fine, its just our way is faster and easier when building as many differentials as we do.


Best Regards,
DTE

 

Well, I did go directly to the chevy stealer and bought a 5 pack of new clips. The problem is/was the machining of the clip groove is not deep enough for any clip. It dosen't go below the splines (like the stocker), so I don't see how it would work, am I missing something? Is it ok to run without the clip? I even tried the grinding as mention above to no avail. also, I didn't know it was from DTE till way late, otherwise I would have called ya guys.
Robert

 

Yes, you are missing something..

The O.E. outboard snap ring groove depth for either shaft is a nominal .123" deep and our output shaft products have a groove depth that is CNC machined to .128", therefore *ANY* snap ring you used will have worked properly.

HOWEVER...

If you did not use any type of shaft locating/alignment tools to properly index either output shaft to its zero axis position in the carrier, than you *WILL* have difficulty getting either side CV joints slid onto the output shafts....

Many folks blame the snap rings or the grooves for the interference, but that is certainly *NOT* the cause of the fitment issue. When the output shafts are not properly indexed to the zero position axis within the carrier, the snap ring will get cocked in the snap ring groove causing a binding condition as someone is trying to force the CV joint onto the shaft and the CV joint axle sleeve will hit the internal ring gear carrier. If someone bangs on it hard enough, long enough...it goes on, but forcing *anything* together is *NOT* the proper way to assemble something, which often leads to other periphreal broken parts as a result.

If someone is lucky and they install the shafts to where they fall very close to the zero axis position, than they will go together easier. Conversely, if they don't, one will have all the problems you had.. We've seen this before.

Our products are machined with greater precision for a snug fit, compared to the sloppy fitting/machined stockers, therefore; they require the installer to be more prudent and meticulous when installing them for proper fitment. You should not have had to "force" or "modify" anything to make our products fit.

Do not *EVER* leave the outboard snap ring out of any differential, otherwise, you'll have effectively increased the likelihood that you'll have premature side cover axle shaft seal failure. We've seen that before also many times too from folks doing that...

One last thing... We don't know why MTI would have suggested to completely leave out the outboard snap ring or what the complete story is there, but if they are doing that with their installs, that certainly would explain why we sometimes get cores here from them that have the outer cages of the axle seals all beat up due to the interference between the inner CV joint and the axle seal in the side cover from the ommision of that snap ring....

There are *NO* un-important parts in the Getrag IRS differential..


Regards,
DTE

 

Well, I must have a bad one. The groove is not machined below the depth of the splines, and can be seen with the naked eye. I used a digital dial mic and the stock shaft measures .994 in the groove, the hardened shaft measures 1.166. So, another indicator of machining error. I took a SS pic with a 90*end and ran it in the splines towards outboard, on the inboard side of the groove there seems to be a slight ridge that is actually higher than the splines, by a couple thousands, this may be why I had such an issue getting it off with out a clip. (It did go on fine) The outboard edge of the groove is slightly deeper than the splines, by a couple thousands. Trust me, I tried 3 different clips, and it will not go together, period. I can take pictures if you like. Now you may wonder where this guy is coming from. I am schooled/trained mechanic and have been working as one for over 30 years. Just got finished doing the engine room for Vic Edelbrock Jr's new boat, dual 16 cyl Detroit Diesels. Any suggestions? I have it all back together, except for the rebuilding of the CV, which I am waiting on parts from chevy. The chevy mech also said, off the record, you would be fine without snap ring?
Robert

 

The bottom line is that if you have a shaft that is not machined properly, than it is probably not our product... We do know that MTI purchases output shafts from another company, so you might have one of theirs. Each and every one of our HD output shafts are QC'd before they leave here, no matter if it sold outright or if it installed in a differential and we CNC machine these in runs of 100 pcs. while the machine is set-up, (for accuracy) not by hand, individually like some of our competitors products we've seen. Additionally, *ALL* of our output shafts leave this facility with a DTE name, serial number and lot number stamping on the end of the shaft- what is the number on yours?



If the output shaft you have does not have this marking, than it is *NOT* our product... We keep very tight records of all of our outgoing product here. If it does and you have this CNC machining error, than the one you have would be the very first of it's kind to be like this since we completely took control of the manufacturing of this product in-house 2 years ago. Send it back and we'll send you another at no charge, as we would be *VERY* curious to see this shaft you're talking about..

We already covered this above and the answer remains the same no matter who says it's "OK" to do so....


Regards,
DTE

 

Yea, what I was suspecting all along, a non DTE shaft. There is no marking of any sort outboard, and if it's maked on the inboard end you can't see it cause it's installed. You know, my gut feeling all along was to go directly to DTE, but because I am a cheap skate, a deal came my way and jumped on it.
Now, the issue with MTI and them telling me it was a DTE, well I will address that elsewhere.
Thanks, for taking the time and having the patience to get through this. Proves that DTE is a stand up company, like I allways stated.
Robert

 

No problem Robert. If you find out that it's not our output shaft and you want to change it out with our product, let us know and we'll give you a break on a replacement, since you had to go through this much trouble to install something you thought it was, but may not be. Just be sure to double check with MTI first before you sharpen your ax so no one's toes gets stepped on accidentally. They are good DTE dealers and if they made a mistake, we're sure it's not intentional.

If need be, take a couple of pictures of it on both ends if you do decide to remove it and we'll be able to tell right away with 100% certainty if it's our's or not.

We'll do what we can to help.


Best Regards,
DTE