What about using 105 octane E85?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Metro Detroit Michigan
Originally Posted by QuickSilver2002
I've thought about it quite a bit myself (it makes a lot of sense). The big problem is going to be getting rid of all the non-stainless parts in the fuel system and coming up with some monster pumps and injectors. Converting to low impedance injectors would be a requirement for sure. The $$$ could add up pretty quickly.
On the cost, not needing meth injection might offset a bit of that.
Originally Posted by QuickSilver2002
The second issue (although not that big) would be the fact that our PCM has no closed loop operation at WOT. I have a funny feeling that each fill up would result in a slightly different fuel (since all the cars running it in the first place are flex). That might be a tuning nightmare.
I'll check on that and see if E85 is always exactly 85%.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Tx
I think 10% is quite different than 85% from a corrosion perspective.
Not sure what the new flex cars use for fuel lines... It is must be stainless or something with a plastic inner coating of some sort. No rubber, aluminum, or magnesium.
Another issue is that e85 is conducive, where regular gasoline is not. So a submerged fuel pump won’t work without special isolation.
It is amazing that the Ford model T was a flex fuel vehicle and we are discussing what it would take to run Ethanol on cars there were made in the 21 century. I wonder where we would be now if Prohibition would have never happend (that supposedly killed ethanol as a fuel source)
Not sure what the new flex cars use for fuel lines... It is must be stainless or something with a plastic inner coating of some sort. No rubber, aluminum, or magnesium.
Another issue is that e85 is conducive, where regular gasoline is not. So a submerged fuel pump won’t work without special isolation.
It is amazing that the Ford model T was a flex fuel vehicle and we are discussing what it would take to run Ethanol on cars there were made in the 21 century. I wonder where we would be now if Prohibition would have never happend (that supposedly killed ethanol as a fuel source)
Last edited by QuickSilver2002; Aug 28, 2006 at 07:32 PM.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Metro Detroit Michigan
Here's a long article for semi techno nerds.
http://www.answers.com/topic/e85
Among other things, it says that operation of post- 1988 cars and trucks is generally considered safe with up to 20% ethanol, since they were designed to have no problem with 10%. This equates to running a blend of 23.5% of E85.
It also says that the E85 blend changes to 70/30 in the winter for ease of starting.
It looks like mixing 20% of the "summer" E85 with normal 93 gasoline would result in about a 95.5 octane fuel, plus you'd have the cooling benefits of some alcohol. Normal closed loop operation might be fine once fuel trims adjust. Might need to retune open loop and make sure fuel supply capacity is adequate, and find a way to make sure the two fuels are mixed well.
I wonder if one could tune for this mix of E85 and premium, and still have it run OK on gasoline in a pinch?
http://www.answers.com/topic/e85
Among other things, it says that operation of post- 1988 cars and trucks is generally considered safe with up to 20% ethanol, since they were designed to have no problem with 10%. This equates to running a blend of 23.5% of E85.
It also says that the E85 blend changes to 70/30 in the winter for ease of starting.
It looks like mixing 20% of the "summer" E85 with normal 93 gasoline would result in about a 95.5 octane fuel, plus you'd have the cooling benefits of some alcohol. Normal closed loop operation might be fine once fuel trims adjust. Might need to retune open loop and make sure fuel supply capacity is adequate, and find a way to make sure the two fuels are mixed well.
I wonder if one could tune for this mix of E85 and premium, and still have it run OK on gasoline in a pinch?
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Alexandria, Virginia, USA VA
at carlisle there is a new startup company that does conversions. they had a custom fuel injected BB 69 vette, a carbed 80 vette (carb plate) and a computer controlled 94 LT1. the 94 LT1 conversion was very simple, it used bigger injectors, alchy compatable pump, and a "piggy back computer" that would control the injectors. soon they will have the timing advance setup too. this setup was relatviely affordable too at around 2k.
the key thing is the "fuel sensor" that will tell the computer what percentage of gas/achly you have. also, alchy draws water like crazy and doesn't like to sit for long periods. the 15% gas will help that though as well as startup.
I hope to see more E85 stations in the future. it would make BIG power when setup right with a pair of hairdryers or a blower. or you can raise the compression ratio.
however, the stuff still isn't that economical to produce and without the gov subsidies, we would even see it out there. it's still in the infancy in the overall country infrastructure with only around 700 E85 stations.
I hope to be a "vette-a-haul-ic" some day soon. my drag car sure loves the stuff!!!
the key thing is the "fuel sensor" that will tell the computer what percentage of gas/achly you have. also, alchy draws water like crazy and doesn't like to sit for long periods. the 15% gas will help that though as well as startup.
I hope to see more E85 stations in the future. it would make BIG power when setup right with a pair of hairdryers or a blower. or you can raise the compression ratio.
however, the stuff still isn't that economical to produce and without the gov subsidies, we would even see it out there. it's still in the infancy in the overall country infrastructure with only around 700 E85 stations.
I hope to be a "vette-a-haul-ic" some day soon. my drag car sure loves the stuff!!!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,931
Likes: 2
From: Tx
the key thing is the "fuel sensor" that will tell the computer what percentage of gas/achly you have.
