1%r

Yea what he said.

Devil Dog

I had a twin turbo Mustang Cobra in the mid nineties, it was a awesome street car, so it was a no-brainer when it came time for my vette to get modded.

oahuyahoo

Great minds think alike.

kumar75150

I dont know if nitrous counts with I went with a NA stroker cause I drive the **** out of the car and I thoughts it would be most reliable. Its enough to break street tires loose.

Then I added nitrous in case I need it on sticky tires.

Warp Factor

OK, I'll try a serious response.

Centrifugal blowers:
Best reported results with A&A and ECS. ECS is more expensive, but includes more stuff. ECS is very quiet, A&A somewhat less so. Haven't heard of overheating issues on ECS, but have on A&A. Base ECS kit will easily support 600 rwhp. System is good for much more than that, but might need to upgrade to a wider drive belt. With this kit, drive belt problems seem to be a thing of the past if properly aligned on installation. Typically has a different power curve than turbos or positive displacement blowers, with power higher in the rpm band. Will start showing boost at about 2k, with boost increasing in a linear fashion up to redline. This creates one possible advantage; volumetric efficiency and torque don't tend to fall off as much at the top as with other power adders, becuase the inherent ramping boost overcomes the tendency for volumetric efficiency to drop.
Instant boost when the throttle goes down. Reasonbly high "underhood bling" factor.

Positive displacement blowers:
Maximum boost and huge torque at low rpms, boost typically falls off a little on the top. Feels and drives like a large displacement motor. The broadest, flattest power band.
Maggie has a proven track record, is based on OEM Eaton units that have been factory installed on lots of cars. Total power is somewhat limited because of the displacement of the blower unit. Larger units are rumored to be in the pipeline.

Kenne Belle allows for higher total power than Maggie. Has been popular and proven with the Mustang crowd for years. Still rather new on the C5, and we haven't had large numbers of people posting feedback.
Both have instant boost when the throttle goes down,and both require replacing the hood for clearance. Power may be somewhat limited by dimensional constraints on intercooler. Reasonbly high "underhood bling" factor for both.

Turbos:
Hard to make generalizations about the power band, depends on turbo sizing etc. Doesn't stress accessory drive system like superchargers.
Less parasitic load on the engine to drive the compressor, so generally higher horsepower at the same boost. Generally more expensive than superchargers, but one must factor in exhaust upgrades, usually included or less important with turbos, but not included with superchargers. Can be a time delay between mashing the throttle and boost, but that depends on particulars. Generally less lag and higher efficiency when turbos are closer to the exhaust ports. More difficult to instantly modulate power delivery with the throttle, because compressor speed isn't directly tied to engine rpm and throttle opening.
People who have had both superchargers and turbos generally report greater satisfaction with turbos, although they're usually comparing older supercharger systems with newer turbo systems.
Of currently availble systems, TTiX seems to have the greatest reported user satisfaction, as long as it's installed and tuned by RoadRebel, or installation and tuning are coached by him. Some very fast cars using this.
STS is less expensive. May have a weight distribution advantage since turbos are mounted in the rear. Turbos are easily accessible for service. Some users are very satisfied, some report numerous problems. More reports of power delivery delay with this system.
Engine comparments on TTi and STS could be mistaken for stock.
PTK: Some very fast cars running this system. Underhood heat management is an issue, usually requiring heat wrapping of exhaust and turbos, a heat extractor hood, and repacing some plastic parts in the engine compartment with some that will withstand higher heat. Can have more "underhood bling" than other turbo systems if heat wrapping etc. doesn't get in the way.
LPE, one of the oldest in the Corvette turbo business. Many fast cars featured in publications. Stellar reputation. Offer a warranty. Not availble as kits. Very pricey, but many say it's worth it.

I'm sure I left some stuff out.

OK, was that "fair and balanced" or what?
Earl and Mark couldn't be that fair even if St. Peter was frowning at them.

Stangkiller

I started with my blower because hands down it was the cheapest kit to buy used on the market. However, i knew there was lots of room for improvment.

I know eventually I want a bad@ss blower set up. So i figured i'd start small with the Ati. And learn about the different parts that i can upgrade, and experiement with different setups, tunes, and such. I'm still just getting started. But i'm to the point now where my car drive just the way i want it to.

MissZ06

Unless you have a real stomach for adventure go with a supercharger. May not make as much top end power but tuning is MUCH easier as well as logistics. This coming from someone who tried to turbo an ls6

Frizzle86

AM I in the right section? This is a way too civil thread

EG and WarpFactor have made some excellent posts here.

Nice to see ppl getting along

asmokegars

Reporting in from the supercharger world.

It has been a journey in continuing to push the envelope and there have been many challenges along the way.

As with any high horsepower setups you have to consider much more than the power adder itself. The motor needs to forged to handle it, the drivetrain needs to be upgraded and still there are problems for both the auto and the manual side. Then there is fuel supply & cooling.

If you are willing to spend the money and time to deal with these than the supercharger/bracket/pulley development to support it has caught up. For me the sweet spot has been the ECS bracket/pulley setup with the Novi2000/3" supercharger pulley & single intercooler. That pulls about 12-13 lbs of boost and has run reliably with no belt problems at all either with a 10 rib or an 8 rib. We have tried to push it further (hence the move to a 10 rib) but it looks like for now we have maxed out. Not a bad spot since it delivers a consistent 9 second car. Make no mistake, a LOT of money has gone into all the other things I mentioned above (drivetrain/fuel supply etc) to support the overall reliability at this level but from a pure FI perspective the Novi2000/3" seems to be it.

If you dial it down from there (bigger pulley/less boost) - less money in other areas yet you will get a very reliable supercharger setup if you invest in the brackets/pulleys/intercooler and make sure the alignment is done properly.

Warp Factor

Why fight?
When it comes to bashing, we can't possibly compete with the Canadians anyway.

#001 2001 Z06

It is indeed.

I would say every system if install and tuned correctly can produce great results.

One issue in many cases, is either unqualified shops or DIYer (that may not be qualified) think that this is just plug and play for any kit. There is some talent, time and expertise required to make any of these work correctly.

As my STS TT, makes boost at idle (under gas), full boost at 3,500 to 6,800 and this with a cam designed to push the power later in the curve. Torque will keep with ANY of Joanses here on the low boost setting.

I have personally seen great results from STS TT, PTK, TTix, LPE, Kenne Bell, ECS, A&A, Procharger and couple of others.

Reliability & heat are two highly debated issues. My 427 car under full boost does not go over 192 w/ double digit boost, no meth running and is daily driven.

0EG@EnglandGreen

No worries. The zealots will always pop out of the woodwork and bash anything they do not like. Unfortunately - and sadly - no one learns anything constructive from all the bad mouthing and bashing.

We all want to learn from other people's experiences, so we can weigh and consider and compare other power adders. But that is few and far between.

To answer TheGame's original questions : I have the ECS Paxton Novi2000 supercharger and I absolutely love it. In my new engine, I expect to produce a 100% reliable 800rwhp street only monster. I drive in excess of 25,000 miles a year so it has to be rock solid.

See my signature for the "underhood bling" factor as well as great power delivery.

A built drivetrain is circa $8,000 to $10,000. If you go to a custom drivetrain like a TH400 or a PowerGlide, expect to double that at least.

Then there is a proper fuel system - circa $2000
Cooling - $1000+
Wheels and tyres to handle the massive increase in torque - $$$$$
Suspension and brakes to control the beast - more $$$$$
And other ancillary things like BOVs, wastegates and boost controllers (if turbo), guages, cages.... the list is endless.

However -
If you are just looking for 450 to 500rwhp, then your stock drivetrain and cooling components would probably be OK for a while. As others have said (including myself), the cost of the power adder is but a small part of what you will eventually spend, so please keep that in your budget.

Good luck in your choice and let us know what you eventually decide.

EG

Warp Factor

ECS Paxton here also (one of the first shipped), but a different approach than EG.
My car only has about 500rwhp, but is completely stock except for the supercharger kit, tune, gauges and an oil catch can. No exhaust, engine or driveline mods. Under $8500 total invested, but with much more power potential if I want to beef up the engine and driveline in the future.

With any significant power increase, it's always good to have a slush fund for engine or driveline breakage though.

Mordeth

Thank you to everyone that has contributed here, as this is exactly the kind of information that I am looking for. WarpFactor, I really appreciate the breakdown of various systems and thanks to EG for spelling out the costs/expectations/planning etc.

I know that the APS system is yet unproven in C5's, but where do you think they will fall in the grand scheme of things? They seem to be producing solid, high numbers in C6's, and LAPD has done something like 5 installs so far - all with great results.

If, let's say, someone is looking for a daily driven, streetable, reliable, powerful machine, is it worth the wait for APS? All of my research thus far indicates it is. The system appears to be very solidly built, properly fitted, with an outstanding fuel delivery system. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Anthony

0EG@EnglandGreen

APS is still not ready for prime time on the C5 - they are still testing.

I am very impressed with that system, and I would definitely be keeping a close eye on this very impressive system when it is released for the C5

asmokegars

I don't think the turbo400 is double if you decide to stay IRS. You can put in the turbo400 and beef up the IRS with DTE brace and hardened output shafts and stay in the original range you mentioned I beleive.

Or you can take a look at buying my Blue car and have too much of everything for less than half the price!

Warp Factor

Looks really good to me. Installation might be a bear with the water cooled turbos and associated plumbing.
I'd be leary about being one of the first with any new system, but some people love being "the first".

0APS

One of the huge benefits of being late into the C5 FI market is that APS gets to listen to C5 owners and then design and produce want most guys want from a highly engineered intercooled twin turbo system, all good.

Peter

tj37_2

What ever you install be it tt or supercharger just make sure it is installed by someone that knows the kit inside and out or you end up like me...500 miles and kaboom.
What EG says is VERY sound advice.
After spending $10,000 (When all is said and done) on the supercharger and ya think life is good. Kaboom and there goes another $10.000

Skunkworks

Warp and EG, all good points.

Some additional thoughts;
Belt alignment is crucial and the variability from car to car surprised me. I had a machinist make up a jig that helps with measurements at certain locations based on passenger side head as reference. I measured over half a dozen LS1/6 engines and compared against 3D drawings. I would find a way to supply some shims for pulley, one that is ideal (on centreline) and one that is +0.02 and another that is -0.02. That should take care of 95% of the installs.

Also newer stile mounting brackets are also thicker and more rigid which resist deflection better under high loads. Don't forget belt can and does produce several hundred pounds of load. I posted in the past that more belt wrap is like additional ribs, because it's about contact area. So latest generation of brackets have gone a long way in alleviating belt related problems, with additional idler that adds more wrap.

I have seen parts of TTi X kit and it is very well made. The log style exhaust manifold casting was good and can see why people are happy with it. Results also speak for them self.

For numerous reasons I like the fender mount turbo concept, close to heat source with room to grow are just a few variables. The down side is, can you actually get a kit in a timely manner and filter changes.

PD type supercharger, I like twin screw for numerous reason although parasitic loading under cruising conditions is higher do to internal compression.

Oh, centrifugal s/c boost curve is an RPM^2 and temperature rise relationship, so it is not linear but exponential. Also if mated to an A4 power under the curve becomes less of an issue as RPMs are kept in sweet spot. With 6-speed proper gear selection is critical, but then why own a manual if you can't shift. Also if you do headers, do some really long tubes like LG as you want more bottom/mid range optimization. The supercharger does fine up top.


Mike