Nitrous
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Home Southern Maine
St. Jude Donor '08
Yep LS1tech is a great place to start, be sure to read the stickies in the nitrous section there.
I did both wet and dry, I discovered that I was pretty much limited to a 50 shot Dry because of my 26# injectors (you have a 2003 so you have 28# is your still stock). I am swapping to 42# next week in an effort to get the dry shot up in the 125-150RWP range.
The wet worked right out of the box, we jetted for a 150 and had no issues.
We did the usual safety stuff, colder plugs (TR6's @ .035), monitored KR and pulled timing as we worked our way up with the jetting. Run the system using a window switch above 3000 RPM, monitored A/F to keep it under 12 while on Nitrous.
Wet introduces Both Fuel and Nitrous via a nozzle or plate (or Direct port), disadvantage is dumping raw fuel into intake may cause puddling and potential for a intake back fire.
Dry is sending the nitrous through the MAF, which reads the Nitrous as more air, and uses the PCM to tell the fuel injectors to dump more fuel (so your sending the fuel to the cylinders using your fuel injectors).
Wet is easier to tune the AFR (change fuel jet up or down).
Dry reduces risk of an intake backfire.
When your looking for your kit, be sure to include a bottle heater (constistant pressure is important in maintaining proper AFR).
I did both wet and dry, I discovered that I was pretty much limited to a 50 shot Dry because of my 26# injectors (you have a 2003 so you have 28# is your still stock). I am swapping to 42# next week in an effort to get the dry shot up in the 125-150RWP range.
The wet worked right out of the box, we jetted for a 150 and had no issues.
We did the usual safety stuff, colder plugs (TR6's @ .035), monitored KR and pulled timing as we worked our way up with the jetting. Run the system using a window switch above 3000 RPM, monitored A/F to keep it under 12 while on Nitrous.
Wet introduces Both Fuel and Nitrous via a nozzle or plate (or Direct port), disadvantage is dumping raw fuel into intake may cause puddling and potential for a intake back fire.
Dry is sending the nitrous through the MAF, which reads the Nitrous as more air, and uses the PCM to tell the fuel injectors to dump more fuel (so your sending the fuel to the cylinders using your fuel injectors).
Wet is easier to tune the AFR (change fuel jet up or down).
Dry reduces risk of an intake backfire.
When your looking for your kit, be sure to include a bottle heater (constistant pressure is important in maintaining proper AFR).
Last edited by Beer99C5@FastbirdPerf.com; Oct 9, 2006 at 11:13 PM.
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Joined: May 2003
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From: Tacoma WA
In my personal web site in the links section is a write up on wet vs dry, and is called the Colonels Tech Files. You will get some valuable insight on this often debated topic. I am a dry guy, however, my 3rd stage is wet, so I don't hate wet guys, totally.
Once you get some of the basic differences down, you'll be able to narrow or pinpoint more direct questions, good luck on your quest.
Robert
Once you get some of the basic differences down, you'll be able to narrow or pinpoint more direct questions, good luck on your quest.
Robert
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From: Simi Valley CA
Originally Posted by Beer99C5
I did both wet and dry, I discovered that I was pretty much limited to a 50 shot Dry because of my 26# injectors (you have a 2003 so you have 28# is your still stock). I am swapping to 42# next week in an effort to get the dry shot up in the 125-150RWP range.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,258
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From: Home Southern Maine
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by Todd157k
Curious why you had issues with the stock injectors at over 50 shot? I have run mine up to 150 shot and didn't see any problems with AF or pressure. I went back down to 100 shot just to be 'way safe'.
I tried different nozzles to see if that was the issue. Results were the same. I started to log using EFI Live and Injector Duty Cycle appears to be the only thing out of wack.
Swapping to 42's this weekend.
You running a wet or dry system?
My Wet Plate system, jetted at 150 works great (right out of the box, no mods), had to jet down a bit on the fuel side to bring the AFR up for low 11's to high 11's.
Banned Scam/Spammer
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From: Simi Valley CA
I have a Dry system but my AF is always mid to high 11s. Even with the bigger 150 shot. Did they change injectors on the 2000? I really don't know what I have there. This is weird.
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From: Tacoma WA
Originally Posted by Todd157k
I have a Dry system but my AF is always mid to high 11s. Even with the bigger 150 shot. Did they change injectors on the 2000? I really don't know what I have there. This is weird.
Robert
Drifting
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From: Home Southern Maine
St. Jude Donor '08
LOL watch it be the MAF, its the only thing left I have not changed out (Its stock Descreened, never touched the wires and from what I have researched thats just what ya want).
Nozzles are right where you said to put em Robert.
It sprays the 175 combo with no signs of pump losing out. So its not the pump.
Here is the 75 Dry Dyno
I am glad I did not just jet to a hundred from the fifty.
Here's the 50
Nice and smooth (But injectors at 106% +)
Nozzles are right where you said to put em Robert.
It sprays the 175 combo with no signs of pump losing out. So its not the pump.
Here is the 75 Dry Dyno
I am glad I did not just jet to a hundred from the fifty.
Here's the 50
Nice and smooth (But injectors at 106% +)
Last edited by Beer99C5@FastbirdPerf.com; Oct 11, 2006 at 01:35 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,343
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From: las vegas NV
Originally Posted by Todd157k
I have a Dry system but my AF is always mid to high 11s. Even with the bigger 150 shot. Did they change injectors on the 2000? I really don't know what I have there. This is weird.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,258
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From: Home Southern Maine
St. Jude Donor '08
Actually, Todd put the dual nozzles inside his air cleaner and is spraying directly at the MAF wires with two nozzles, where mine are around the corner and spray in front of the MAF opening (as close as the Blackwing design allows).
If those are 26# (should be 1999 and 2000 had the 26#) Todd is running I bet way higher than my 106% Duty Cycle when spraying.
Because he is spraying directly on the wires (3-4" away?) the MAF is reading it better, and forcing the injectors to match the MAF air reading (Good thing).
Down side, excessively exceding the injector limits may lead to injector failure? Isn't the general rule don't exceed 85% Duty Cycle?
Here is a data spread of the 50 Dry showing the duty cycle during the shot
5% was coasting, 82% was the avg, 106% was the max, all data filtered 2800 RPM through 6000 RPM. The stuff blocked out was my inputs for the fuel pressure gauge and WB (not set up yet).
Here is the thread that shows both our nozzle setups.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1515545
If those are 26# (should be 1999 and 2000 had the 26#) Todd is running I bet way higher than my 106% Duty Cycle when spraying.
Because he is spraying directly on the wires (3-4" away?) the MAF is reading it better, and forcing the injectors to match the MAF air reading (Good thing).
Down side, excessively exceding the injector limits may lead to injector failure? Isn't the general rule don't exceed 85% Duty Cycle?
Here is a data spread of the 50 Dry showing the duty cycle during the shot
5% was coasting, 82% was the avg, 106% was the max, all data filtered 2800 RPM through 6000 RPM. The stuff blocked out was my inputs for the fuel pressure gauge and WB (not set up yet).
Here is the thread that shows both our nozzle setups.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1515545
Last edited by Beer99C5@FastbirdPerf.com; Oct 11, 2006 at 04:11 AM.
Banned Scam/Spammer
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From: Simi Valley CA
Here's a pic (not overly clear) of my nozzle set up. Also, I have a granatelli MAF on it. I did put the stock MAF on it however I felt a serious lack of power under boost. My nozzles are approximately 7 inches from the MAF wires. I'm also running a 80mm tb (not sure if that makes any difference to this convo anyway)
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3585530
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3585530
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Joined: May 2003
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From: Tacoma WA
Originally Posted by Beer99C5
Actually, Todd put the dual nozzles inside his air cleaner and is spraying directly at the MAF wires with two nozzles, where mine are around the corner and spray in front of the MAF opening (as close as the Blackwing design allows).
I may have an idea what is wrong. Can you post your WOT Power Enrichment fuel Multipliers, for each rpm jump to redline? I think your nozzle location will suffice.
If those are 26# (should be 1999 and 2000 had the 26#) Todd is running I bet way higher than my 106% Duty Cycle when spraying.
Because he is spraying directly on the wires (3-4" away?) the MAF is reading it better, and forcing the injectors to match the MAF air reading (Good thing).
Correct amundo, and this is going to be the reason more run dry in the future, it's now been documented very well that close is good, far is bad. Acutually it's reading a false amount of air based on temp/density and then the pcm ups the injector pulse width, thus adding more fuel.
Down side, excessively exceding the injector limits may lead to injector failure? Isn't the general rule don't exceed 85% Duty Cycle?
Here's the thing, the 80% general rule is based upon a more continued use parameter, which could lead to early failure. Now, when only going past 80% for a 10/11 sec period wear/tear really is minimual. You should still be getting a very rich a/f, so we are looking at other areas, eventhough the injectors have gone past static they certainly can supply the fuel. One guy on the forum was running a 200 or bigger shot close to the maf on stock C5 injectors and going like 130% duty cycle and a 10.8:1 a/f and was running 10's (not rec but to show that even after injectors go static they can still supply the needed fuel).
Here is a data spread of the 50 Dry showing the duty cycle during the shot
5% was coasting, 82% was the avg, 106% was the max, all data filtered 2800 RPM through 6000 RPM. The stuff blocked out was my inputs for the fuel pressure gauge and WB (not set up yet).
106% really isn't much to be concerned with on the short end of things, going to the 42's like you are is the cure, however, if I am right, then you would still be going lean (after 42's) because the lean source is elsewhere, in the tune I think. It's kinda hard to do diagnostics on the internet, but maybe we have found it with above additional info.
Here is the thread that shows both our nozzle setups.
Are you using 90* or 70* nozzles, and which did you try before?
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1515545
I may have an idea what is wrong. Can you post your WOT Power Enrichment fuel Multipliers, for each rpm jump to redline? I think your nozzle location will suffice.
If those are 26# (should be 1999 and 2000 had the 26#) Todd is running I bet way higher than my 106% Duty Cycle when spraying.
Because he is spraying directly on the wires (3-4" away?) the MAF is reading it better, and forcing the injectors to match the MAF air reading (Good thing).
Correct amundo, and this is going to be the reason more run dry in the future, it's now been documented very well that close is good, far is bad. Acutually it's reading a false amount of air based on temp/density and then the pcm ups the injector pulse width, thus adding more fuel.
Down side, excessively exceding the injector limits may lead to injector failure? Isn't the general rule don't exceed 85% Duty Cycle?
Here's the thing, the 80% general rule is based upon a more continued use parameter, which could lead to early failure. Now, when only going past 80% for a 10/11 sec period wear/tear really is minimual. You should still be getting a very rich a/f, so we are looking at other areas, eventhough the injectors have gone past static they certainly can supply the fuel. One guy on the forum was running a 200 or bigger shot close to the maf on stock C5 injectors and going like 130% duty cycle and a 10.8:1 a/f and was running 10's (not rec but to show that even after injectors go static they can still supply the needed fuel).
Here is a data spread of the 50 Dry showing the duty cycle during the shot
5% was coasting, 82% was the avg, 106% was the max, all data filtered 2800 RPM through 6000 RPM. The stuff blocked out was my inputs for the fuel pressure gauge and WB (not set up yet).
106% really isn't much to be concerned with on the short end of things, going to the 42's like you are is the cure, however, if I am right, then you would still be going lean (after 42's) because the lean source is elsewhere, in the tune I think. It's kinda hard to do diagnostics on the internet, but maybe we have found it with above additional info.
Here is the thread that shows both our nozzle setups.
Are you using 90* or 70* nozzles, and which did you try before?
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1515545
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,258
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From: Home Southern Maine
St. Jude Donor '08
I am crew changing in the morning, will get with you Robert over the next two weeks in PM's (here or over there). Everything is up and running (wideband, EFI Live Tune etc), after some street tuning I hope to make it to the dyno for a fresh round of test with the 42's. Maybe even get to the track and get some times (Someone needs to steal last from Noyzee in the Y body list before the year ends, I might as well do it LOL).
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,520
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From: Tacoma WA
Originally Posted by Beer99C5
I am crew changing in the morning, will get with you Robert over the next two weeks in PM's (here or over there). Everything is up and running (wideband, EFI Live Tune etc), after some street tuning I hope to make it to the dyno for a fresh round of test with the 42's. Maybe even get to the track and get some times (Someone needs to steal last from Noyzee in the Y body list before the year ends, I might as well do it LOL).
Robert