Which piston? Pick one
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Which piston? Pick one
The setup is going to be a D-1SC running 15-17psi + 50-100 shot of Nitrous. Could upgrade to F1-R later on for extra boost (17-19psi). The heads will be AFR 225's with 72cc chamber.
All the short blocks are around the same price give or take $100 and going to have these parts in common:
LQ9 iron Block
4.00 Eagle Crank
Hell fire rings
Callies rods
ARP rod bolts
Clevite mains
Now the difference will be in the pistons because every engine builder prefer one over the other.
All pistons are made with lowered rings location to handle the extra boost.
Option 1: Manley 2618 with 22 cc dish. 8.9:1 C/R
Option 2: New Mahle Boost pistons with 26cc dish. 8.7:1 C/R
Option 3: Wiesco Turbo pistons with 32cc dish. 8.4:1 C/R
Option 4: Dimond pistons wiith 20cc dish. 9.0:1 C/R
All the short blocks are around the same price give or take $100 and going to have these parts in common:
LQ9 iron Block
4.00 Eagle Crank
Hell fire rings
Callies rods
ARP rod bolts
Clevite mains
Now the difference will be in the pistons because every engine builder prefer one over the other.
All pistons are made with lowered rings location to handle the extra boost.
Option 1: Manley 2618 with 22 cc dish. 8.9:1 C/R
Option 2: New Mahle Boost pistons with 26cc dish. 8.7:1 C/R
Option 3: Wiesco Turbo pistons with 32cc dish. 8.4:1 C/R
Option 4: Dimond pistons wiith 20cc dish. 9.0:1 C/R
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,931
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From: Tx
If it is a pump gas car you might want to consider the dish design (reversed dome vs full dish to maintain quench pad). On an all out race car with race gas, full dish might be the best choice. Those are all pretty big dishes, so not even sure if a reverse dome is available with that much dish.
Not an expert, but something I would personally consider. Others seem to have good results with both designs.
Also, I think 8.4-8.7 seems too low for a cent blower/n20 setup. I would shoot for 9.0.
Not an expert, but something I would personally consider. Others seem to have good results with both designs.
Also, I think 8.4-8.7 seems too low for a cent blower/n20 setup. I would shoot for 9.0.
Last edited by QuickSilver2002; Oct 13, 2006 at 01:47 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 10,230
Likes: 885
From: Alexandria, Virginia, USA VA
Originally Posted by RyneZ06
that new mahle pistons is suppose to be kickass, i know wheel to wheel uses them, and evos run them at 40psi of boost.
these guys aren't that well known but have been doing OEM and high end race stuff for years. they seem to make a pretty killer product with the out of the box coatings, and superior rings land sealing for more power. I think I would sure consider them.more of the import guys use em, but they make some great stuff, no cheap though!!
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Knoxville Tennessee
I prefer JE's.
I also run 8.7:1 compression.
I voted for the Mahle's because that is compression that I would run.
I also run 8.7:1 compression.
I voted for the Mahle's because that is compression that I would run.
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I did more research and found out that Wiesco and Manley uses the same 2618 forged alloy. Mahle uses 4032. Im not sure what Dimond pistons uses for their alloy.
Anyways here is an article i found comparing the two materials
"Forged pistons are typically made from one of two alloys: SAE 4032 or SAE 2618. The 4032 alloy is most often used for pistons in street engines, drag engines, naturally aspirated engines and many sportsman class circle track engines. The 4032 alloy contains more silicon (11 to 13.5 percent) than 2618 (less than 0.25 percent), which reduces thermal expansion, improves lubricity and scuff resistance. The 2618 alloy, by comparison, is a low silicon alloy so it has a higher coefficient of thermal expansion and much more tendency to scuff. But it is about a 10-15 percent stronger material and is typically the alloy of choice for serious racing, marine engines, and boosted and bottle-fed engines that produce a lot of heat in the combustion chamber. However, these pistons are not to be used for street or mild racing applications where they won't be replaced routinely."
Wow so a 2618 has to be replaced routinely? Anyone can confirm this?
Anyways here is an article i found comparing the two materials
"Forged pistons are typically made from one of two alloys: SAE 4032 or SAE 2618. The 4032 alloy is most often used for pistons in street engines, drag engines, naturally aspirated engines and many sportsman class circle track engines. The 4032 alloy contains more silicon (11 to 13.5 percent) than 2618 (less than 0.25 percent), which reduces thermal expansion, improves lubricity and scuff resistance. The 2618 alloy, by comparison, is a low silicon alloy so it has a higher coefficient of thermal expansion and much more tendency to scuff. But it is about a 10-15 percent stronger material and is typically the alloy of choice for serious racing, marine engines, and boosted and bottle-fed engines that produce a lot of heat in the combustion chamber. However, these pistons are not to be used for street or mild racing applications where they won't be replaced routinely."
Wow so a 2618 has to be replaced routinely? Anyone can confirm this?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2002
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Placed an order on a shortblock
Brain and the guys are LME were very helpful. I made the decision to go with LME because they do everything in house and their off the self Wiseco was used before on a 1500HP application. They told me not worry about scuffing with the 2618 pistons because they set them up based on the boost and nos im going to be running. They also gave me a good warranty on the short block and the wait time is the shortest at 3 weeks. Anyways here are the specs on the engine:
LQ9 Iron block 4.030 Bore
Eagle 4340 4.0" Crank
Callies 6.125 H beam rods with ARP 2000 bolts
Wiseco 32cc 4.030 2618 pistons with lowered rings for high boost use
Hell fire rings
Federal Mogal main bearings
Clevite H rod bearings
Dura Bond cam bearings
ARP main studs
Then everything will be balanced and blue printed.
LQ9 Iron block 4.030 Bore
Eagle 4340 4.0" Crank
Callies 6.125 H beam rods with ARP 2000 bolts
Wiseco 32cc 4.030 2618 pistons with lowered rings for high boost use
Hell fire rings
Federal Mogal main bearings
Clevite H rod bearings
Dura Bond cam bearings
ARP main studs
Then everything will be balanced and blue printed.
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Thread Starter
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I went with the Wiseco 32cc dish because it will allow me to play with the compression alot easier. Since i didnt get the heads yet.... i can get a 65cc heads that would bring my compression ratio to 8.9:1-9.0:1 with the D-1SC and 100 shot and later one when i get the F1-R i can change the heads to a 72cc which will bring my C/R to 8.4:1 so i can run 17-20psi on pump gas with alky.
Thread Starter
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Now I have to choose the heads... I was planning to go with the AFR 225's 72cc, but the compression would be too low. I need a head with 65cc chamber to get the desired 8.9:1-9.0:1 Compression ratio for the D-1SC. The ET heads are harder to work on and I have to get other supporting parts with it which im not willing to do. The TrickFlows looks good too, but I don't know what cc's does their 225 heads come in. There are also the ALLPRO heads which looks great.
Any suggestions?
Any suggestions?
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Originally Posted by BLOWNZO6
I run box stock Dart 225's
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Knoxville Tennessee
Originally Posted by LSs1Power
You dont have any smoking problems? I heard there is some smoke on deceleration from 402-408's running Darts. What did your Darts flow? What valve size are you running and whats the Chamber size?
Did not have them flowed. Valve sizes are what they came with as well. 2.05/1.60, 62cc chamber.
http://www.dartheads.com/ls1.aspx
As for flow.. the car made 686RWHP/657RWT on a Mustang Dyno on just 14 psi. The car also ran over 106mph in the 1/8th the first time I took it out.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,241
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From: Knoxville Tennessee
Originally Posted by chriswtx
the Darts that had problems were some that had been CNC ported by other vendors. Not stock out of the box Darts...
For the price it was an easy pick for me. They were in stock too.
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From: Orchard Park New York
Originally Posted by LSs1Power
I did more research and found out that Wiesco and Manley uses the same 2618 forged alloy. Mahle uses 4032. Im not sure what Dimond pistons uses for their alloy.
Anyways here is an article i found comparing the two materials
"Forged pistons are typically made from one of two alloys: SAE 4032 or SAE 2618. The 4032 alloy is most often used for pistons in street engines, drag engines, naturally aspirated engines and many sportsman class circle track engines. The 4032 alloy contains more silicon (11 to 13.5 percent) than 2618 (less than 0.25 percent), which reduces thermal expansion, improves lubricity and scuff resistance. The 2618 alloy, by comparison, is a low silicon alloy so it has a higher coefficient of thermal expansion and much more tendency to scuff. But it is about a 10-15 percent stronger material and is typically the alloy of choice for serious racing, marine engines, and boosted and bottle-fed engines that produce a lot of heat in the combustion chamber. However, these pistons are not to be used for street or mild racing applications where they won't be replaced routinely."
Wow so a 2618 has to be replaced routinely? Anyone can confirm this?
Anyways here is an article i found comparing the two materials
"Forged pistons are typically made from one of two alloys: SAE 4032 or SAE 2618. The 4032 alloy is most often used for pistons in street engines, drag engines, naturally aspirated engines and many sportsman class circle track engines. The 4032 alloy contains more silicon (11 to 13.5 percent) than 2618 (less than 0.25 percent), which reduces thermal expansion, improves lubricity and scuff resistance. The 2618 alloy, by comparison, is a low silicon alloy so it has a higher coefficient of thermal expansion and much more tendency to scuff. But it is about a 10-15 percent stronger material and is typically the alloy of choice for serious racing, marine engines, and boosted and bottle-fed engines that produce a lot of heat in the combustion chamber. However, these pistons are not to be used for street or mild racing applications where they won't be replaced routinely."
Wow so a 2618 has to be replaced routinely? Anyone can confirm this?
Check with Chris or Doug at ECS...I believe they use Manley in almost all of their motors
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 431
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From: Browns Mills NJ
I'd opt for the Mahle Pistons. Years of OEM, WRC and F1 racing experience (Michael Schumacher can't be wrong can he?) and more resources at thier disposal when it comes to testing a design. I've heard that the Diamonds require alot of hand prep before they are usable (deburring, pin fitting, etc). The Mahle stuff comes ready to rock out of the box. They will do custom one off pistons for you too but there is a 6-8 week lead time. I have used the JE's in the past with good results also, but they were not part of this poll.
Jersey
Jersey
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Posts: 3,615
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From: waterloo ontario
St. Jude Donor '08
CP pistons are badass!!!!! Probably the best out there-all the crazy hi-power FI car run them. If the Mahles are 4032 I would pass on them unless the top ringland has a really thick deck. Diamonds, JE and Wiseco would be the next order-you could get some Probe's too-there quite a bit cheaper but still the good 2618 alloy. Hell when I was on a budget I ran stock replacement forged TRW's in my 302, the motor lasted right up till this year when the Mexican block cracked in half going 8.80's!