Please don't bash...question
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
Please don't bash...question
From everything I've read, unless you are a hard core 1/4 racer, 600rwhp is the max usable on the street (unless you are reaching speeds of over 160mph), and 800rwhp on the track (beyond this, the breakage factor really kicks in). The 346 block is more than capable of generating these numbers...why spend extra cash on dropping in new engines/blocks?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,285
Likes: 2
From: Crooks SD
Reliability. Some have 600+rwhp stock-ish setups that live, but others have grenaded far below that. Mdhmi ran right around 600rwhp (mustang dyno) on his stock LS1 shortblock (WCC heads, I believe) and opted to go with a forged shortblock for peace of mind. His stocker didn't blow; he changed for reliability.
FYI, it's it's all in the tune… have someone who knows these things inside and out tune it. Even then, you're only a bad tank of gas from needing a rebuild.
As far as needing the extra cubes to make power… I perfer the stock 346 as well.
Also, you'll probably run into breakage 600rwhp unless you're setup properly. Half-shafts, clutches, etc… have the serious drag guys tell you what they've broke or do a search. I'm sure you'll find a thread where these guys talked about what they snapped/twisted at this level (600rwhp), let alone 700+
FYI, it's it's all in the tune… have someone who knows these things inside and out tune it. Even then, you're only a bad tank of gas from needing a rebuild.
As far as needing the extra cubes to make power… I perfer the stock 346 as well.
Also, you'll probably run into breakage 600rwhp unless you're setup properly. Half-shafts, clutches, etc… have the serious drag guys tell you what they've broke or do a search. I'm sure you'll find a thread where these guys talked about what they snapped/twisted at this level (600rwhp), let alone 700+
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,931
Likes: 2
From: Tx
The stock pistons are pretty fragil. so a lot of people pull the motor to replace them before they let go. At that point many think what the hell if I'm pulling the entire motor... why not go bigger while I'm at it.
HP is a bad # to go on. TQ is the real advantage of bigger motors. More CI generally gives you a fatter more controllable TQ curve. Some FI systems can give you insane tq down low (small turbos, twin screw...), but it is a bit hard to control (sort of on/off).
Personally, on a c5 I would stick with stock CI if I was going FI and not looking to break records. For NA, I would run all the CI I could get. I'm hoping to eventually turn my c5 into a road race setup, at that point I think I will go back to NA and run the biggest CI motor I can find.
HP is a bad # to go on. TQ is the real advantage of bigger motors. More CI generally gives you a fatter more controllable TQ curve. Some FI systems can give you insane tq down low (small turbos, twin screw...), but it is a bit hard to control (sort of on/off).
Personally, on a c5 I would stick with stock CI if I was going FI and not looking to break records. For NA, I would run all the CI I could get. I'm hoping to eventually turn my c5 into a road race setup, at that point I think I will go back to NA and run the biggest CI motor I can find.
Last edited by QuickSilver2002; Dec 4, 2006 at 12:13 PM.
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,876
Likes: 8
From: Las Vegas NV
St. Jude Donor '06 & '12
Have you ever heard your wife say:
"Its SMALL but it still gets the job done.."
ORRRRRRR
"All women love MORE CUBIC INCHES"
SIZE MATTERS....
You now have my opinion...
"Its SMALL but it still gets the job done.."
ORRRRRRR
"All women love MORE CUBIC INCHES"
SIZE MATTERS....
You now have my opinion...
Life Time NCM #2196
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 82,572
Likes: 1,683
From: Converse TX
Originally Posted by QuickSilver2002
The stock pistons are pretty fragil. so a lot of people pull the motor to replace them before they let go. At that point many think what the hell if I'm pulling the entire motor... why not go bigger while I'm at it.
HP is a bad # to go on. TQ is the real advantage of bigger motors. More CI generally gives you a fatter more controllable TQ curve. Some FI systems can give you insane tq down low (small turbos, twin screw...), but it is a bit hard to control (sort of on/off).
Personally, on a c5 I would stick with stock CI if I was going FI and not looking to break records. For NA, I would run all the CI I could get. I'm hoping to eventually turn my c5 into a road race setup, at that point I think I will go back to NA and run the biggest CI motor I can find.
HP is a bad # to go on. TQ is the real advantage of bigger motors. More CI generally gives you a fatter more controllable TQ curve. Some FI systems can give you insane tq down low (small turbos, twin screw...), but it is a bit hard to control (sort of on/off).
Personally, on a c5 I would stick with stock CI if I was going FI and not looking to break records. For NA, I would run all the CI I could get. I'm hoping to eventually turn my c5 into a road race setup, at that point I think I will go back to NA and run the biggest CI motor I can find.
Right on, I have no issues with my little ole 346 with a blower and more power than I need, but I like what I have and if I was going N/A I would wait for that new GM setup and go real large on the CI
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
Size
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
Have you ever heard your wife say:
"Its SMALL but it still gets the job done.."
ORRRRRRR
"All women love MORE CUBIC INCHES"
SIZE MATTERS....
You now have my opinion...
"Its SMALL but it still gets the job done.."
ORRRRRRR
"All women love MORE CUBIC INCHES"
SIZE MATTERS....
You now have my opinion...
I agree, but you reach a point when size becomes useless for the particular goal you are trying to reach. For example, using your analogy, you bottom out with 7-8 inches. The rest is a waste.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,872
Likes: 7
From: Richmond VA
Going over 600 gets very pricey. Dont get me wrong, I'd take it in a heartbeat, but I think you will find 550 to be just fine on the street. Of course, since I have been going to the track, I dont play on the street at all - too dangerous.
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Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,876
Likes: 8
From: Las Vegas NV
St. Jude Donor '06 & '12
Originally Posted by Twin Screws
I agree, but you reach a point when size becomes useless for the particular goal you are trying to reach. For example, using your analogy, you bottom out with 7-8 inches. The rest is a waste.
I always say go bigger, this way you put less strain on the motor itself.
Theirs no point in wringing the motors neck to get to your goal.
Can a 346 make as much power as a 427?? YUP
But how quickly are you gonna degrade the life of the smaller motor in comparison to the larger one.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 36,989
Likes: 68
From: This city NEVER sleeps! Frank's back yard!
I'm making 700 rwhp and it is LOTS of fun on the street. LPE calibrates the TC to lay down max power and not spin too much and not kill the power too much either. Having said that, my ride recently lost oil pressure (not the sending unit - replaced it) and it is back at LPE presently for troubleshooting. Maybe this is my hint to go to more cubes? I think I should be able to get this level of power from my motor reliably, considering some are getting over 800 rwhp from stock cubes on pump gas.
The only drawback of stock cubes is that the transition from no boost to full boost is difficult to modulate and frequently ends up in spinning the tires vigorously as the boost comes on. With more cubes, you have more power off boost, and less transitional 'kick' to break the tires loose. Or so I've been told!
The only drawback of stock cubes is that the transition from no boost to full boost is difficult to modulate and frequently ends up in spinning the tires vigorously as the boost comes on. With more cubes, you have more power off boost, and less transitional 'kick' to break the tires loose. Or so I've been told!
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,382
Likes: 0
From: Va Beach VA
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10
FedEx Bowl 4 St. Jude '09
I am at 580/540 on a stock motor and it is pretty much useless on the streets (1,2 and some of 3rd) and in this cold weather forget about it. I am very happy with these numbers and not really looking for more HP but I am in the process of planning to forge the motor for peace of mind. The flip side of this is when I have a stronger motor why not go with heads, cam and more boost? Like I said I am not looking for more power but if you are going to spend the money to forge things its hard not to say hmm, why not get more HP. Hell, if nothing else spend 200 bucks for a new pulley and gain 100 HP. It's hard to resist that easy gain in HP.
Like American HP said, it does make the ego proud when you have big numbers, everyone likes to brag.
By the way, I hope everything is going well with you American HP
Like American HP said, it does make the ego proud when you have big numbers, everyone likes to brag.
By the way, I hope everything is going well with you American HP
Safety Car
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,615
Likes: 2
From: waterloo ontario
St. Jude Donor '08
I think the best thing to do is sit down and REALLY think-I mean REALLY think about what you want out of the car. I don't care what anyone says but as soon as the car gets modded anything can break-so no need putting a HP # on it. Once you figure out how much power you want build it to that number the right way once and be done with it.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 50,808
Likes: 9
From: Buy USA products! Check the label! Employ Americans
Originally Posted by Twin Screws
I agree, but you reach a point when size becomes useless for the particular goal you are trying to reach. For example, using your analogy, you bottom out with 7-8 inches. The rest is a waste.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,157
Likes: 154
From: The Arid Sunny Desert
Originally Posted by eb02z06
I think the best thing to do is sit down and REALLY think-I mean REALLY think about what you want out of the car. I don't care what anyone says but as soon as the car gets modded anything can break-so no need putting a HP # on it. Once you figure out how much power you want build it to that number the right way once and be done with it.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 26,794
Likes: 614
From: Elmhurst, IL (West Suburb of Chicago) & Home of MEGA Horsepower
St. Jude Donor '06
Originally Posted by QuickSilver2002
The stock pistons are pretty fragil. so a lot of people pull the motor to replace them before they let go. At that point many think what the hell if I'm pulling the entire motor... why not go bigger while I'm at it.
HP is a bad # to go on. TQ is the real advantage of bigger motors. More CI generally gives you a fatter more controllable TQ curve. Some FI systems can give you insane tq down low (small turbos, twin screw...), but it is a bit hard to control (sort of on/off).
Personally, on a c5 I would stick with stock CI if I was going FI and not looking to break records. For NA, I would run all the CI I could get. I'm hoping to eventually turn my c5 into a road race setup, at that point I think I will go back to NA and run the biggest CI motor I can find.
HP is a bad # to go on. TQ is the real advantage of bigger motors. More CI generally gives you a fatter more controllable TQ curve. Some FI systems can give you insane tq down low (small turbos, twin screw...), but it is a bit hard to control (sort of on/off).
Personally, on a c5 I would stick with stock CI if I was going FI and not looking to break records. For NA, I would run all the CI I could get. I'm hoping to eventually turn my c5 into a road race setup, at that point I think I will go back to NA and run the biggest CI motor I can find.
Very well said and pretty much EXACTLY what my plans are for the future also with going back to a HUGE N/A big cubed motor (as in 482+ cubic inches)!!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 822
Likes: 0
From: Grafton Ohio
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
But just like anything else...Its all BRAGGING RIGHTS...
I always say go bigger, this way you put less strain on the motor itself.
Theirs no point in wringing the motors neck to get to your goal.
Can a 346 make as much power as a 427?? YUP
But how quickly are you gonna degrade the life of the smaller motor in comparison to the larger one.
I always say go bigger, this way you put less strain on the motor itself.
Theirs no point in wringing the motors neck to get to your goal.
Can a 346 make as much power as a 427?? YUP
But how quickly are you gonna degrade the life of the smaller motor in comparison to the larger one.
More cubes equals more torque. The extra cubes also allow you to run a bigger cam with good street manners.Jer.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Originally Posted by Pewtavert
I think that for alot of people, myself included, it all comes down to money. If I had a large lump sum to drop at one time this would be a feasible idea but I have been modding my car for over 6 years. As more disposable income becomes available the more the mods. Even if I would have done it right 6 years ago do you think that by todays standards my car would really be finished?
... I wish.I can still dream can't I
.