, ball bearing 
STS vs TurboTechnology
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 904
Likes: 36
From: Santa Cruz CA
Can't always get what you want.
I have to admit maybe a better question would have been TTix or APS. I mean for a high power build I do think those kits are easier to get results out of performance wise. Plus both have great quality and engineering.
I see the STS as more of a 'might not make ultimate power but makes more than you will ever need or be able to use on the street and you can still brag you have twin turbos'. Having had a number of high horsepower street cars you really hit a wall for road race, meaning not a full drag oriented car, at around 600 rwhp on the street. Beyond that it's just lots of grief and chassis issues and driveline annoyances. And if you could ever get through all that stuff, if you ever tried to unleash it on the street you would have to be crazy. I think the STS kits can hit that 600 rwhp number so figure they will work just fine for most street people.
For me, as I said in an earlier post it's very simple. Smog technician looks under the hood. Smog tech see's aftermarket parts. Smog tech asks for documentation/sticker with a Green Diamond (1) on it. You either have it, or you no longer have a registerable street car. That simple.
I have argued with different smog techs and state referee's until I was blue in the face about the fact that the car DOES pass the tailpipe test and DOES have all the emissions controls in place. All I ever get is the stoneface "but it doesn't have a CARB EO#...fail visual".
With all the Green movement stuff just picking up pace and small carbon footprints and hybrids and all that, more and more states are just rubber stamping Californias already in place and very established emissions laws to save the trouble of setting up their own. It is no longer a matter of if you will have to get your car to pass a visual check along with a tailpipe test, it's just a matter of when will it come to your town.
Personally I think this puts a unfair burden on small volume specialty parts manufacturers who can't afford to buy their way through the time consuming labyrinthine CARB EO process. I think SEMA should start petitioning for some type of simpler process for these small manufacturers so that they can stay in business and keep making all these great parts.
It really pisses me off that I am stuck with so few options if I don't want to break the law. I know it might not affect you now where you live. But it will someday, have not doubt about it. Be nice to see SEMA get the ball rolling to keep our hobby alive now rather than when everyone is nearly out of business because other states just rubberstamped the CA smog laws and they can't sell parts. I want the choice of TTix or APS, not just STS or nothing legal.
P.S. and yes I know the centrifugal are a legal option, but 13 years of fighting belt issues of one type or another and I would really rather try something different this time.
I see the STS as more of a 'might not make ultimate power but makes more than you will ever need or be able to use on the street and you can still brag you have twin turbos'. Having had a number of high horsepower street cars you really hit a wall for road race, meaning not a full drag oriented car, at around 600 rwhp on the street. Beyond that it's just lots of grief and chassis issues and driveline annoyances. And if you could ever get through all that stuff, if you ever tried to unleash it on the street you would have to be crazy. I think the STS kits can hit that 600 rwhp number so figure they will work just fine for most street people.
For me, as I said in an earlier post it's very simple. Smog technician looks under the hood. Smog tech see's aftermarket parts. Smog tech asks for documentation/sticker with a Green Diamond (1) on it. You either have it, or you no longer have a registerable street car. That simple.
I have argued with different smog techs and state referee's until I was blue in the face about the fact that the car DOES pass the tailpipe test and DOES have all the emissions controls in place. All I ever get is the stoneface "but it doesn't have a CARB EO#...fail visual".
With all the Green movement stuff just picking up pace and small carbon footprints and hybrids and all that, more and more states are just rubber stamping Californias already in place and very established emissions laws to save the trouble of setting up their own. It is no longer a matter of if you will have to get your car to pass a visual check along with a tailpipe test, it's just a matter of when will it come to your town.
Personally I think this puts a unfair burden on small volume specialty parts manufacturers who can't afford to buy their way through the time consuming labyrinthine CARB EO process. I think SEMA should start petitioning for some type of simpler process for these small manufacturers so that they can stay in business and keep making all these great parts.
It really pisses me off that I am stuck with so few options if I don't want to break the law. I know it might not affect you now where you live. But it will someday, have not doubt about it. Be nice to see SEMA get the ball rolling to keep our hobby alive now rather than when everyone is nearly out of business because other states just rubberstamped the CA smog laws and they can't sell parts. I want the choice of TTix or APS, not just STS or nothing legal.
P.S. and yes I know the centrifugal are a legal option, but 13 years of fighting belt issues of one type or another and I would really rather try something different this time.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 5
From: Forsyth Illinois
For me, as I said in an earlier post it's very simple. Smog technician looks under the hood. Smog tech see's aftermarket parts. Smog tech asks for documentation/sticker with a Green Diamond (1) on it. You either have it, or you no longer have a registerable street car. That simple.
I have argued with different smog techs and state referee's until I was blue in the face about the fact that the car DOES pass the tailpipe test and DOES have all the emissions controls in place. All I ever get is the stoneface "but it doesn't have a CARB EO#...fail visual".
So do any of the twin turbo kits have this "Green Diamond Sticker" or CARB EO# so they will pass the visual test?
Mark
I have argued with different smog techs and state referee's until I was blue in the face about the fact that the car DOES pass the tailpipe test and DOES have all the emissions controls in place. All I ever get is the stoneface "but it doesn't have a CARB EO#...fail visual".
So do any of the twin turbo kits have this "Green Diamond Sticker" or CARB EO# so they will pass the visual test?
Mark
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,015
Likes: 15
From: Loxahatchee Florida
Last few thoughts.
I have to admit maybe a better question would have been TTix or APS. I mean for a high power build I do think those kits are easier to get results out of performance wise. Plus both have great quality and engineering.
I see the STS as more of a 'might not make ultimate power but makes more than you will ever need or be able to use on the street and you can still brag you have twin turbos'. Having had a number of high horsepower street cars you really hit a wall for road race, meaning not a full drag oriented car, at around 600 rwhp on the street. Beyond that it's just lots of grief and chassis issues and driveline annoyances. And if you could ever get through all that stuff, if you ever tried to unleash it on the street you would have to be crazy. I think the STS kits can hit that 600 rwhp number so figure they will work just fine for most street people.
For me, as I said in an earlier post it's very simple. Smog technician looks under the hood. Smog tech see's aftermarket parts. Smog tech asks for documentation/sticker with a Green Diamond (1) on it. You either have it, or you no longer have a registerable street car. That simple.
I have argued with different smog techs and state referee's until I was blue in the face about the fact that the car DOES pass the tailpipe test and DOES have all the emissions controls in place. All I ever get is the stoneface "but it doesn't have a CARB EO#...fail visual".
With all the Green movement stuff just picking up pace and small carbon footprints and hybrids and all that, more and more states are just rubber stamping Californias already in place and very established emissions laws to save the trouble of setting up their own. It is no longer a matter of if you will have to get your car to pass a visual check along with a tailpipe test, it's just a matter of when will it come to your town.
Personally I think this puts a unfair burden on small volume specialty parts manufacturers who can't afford to buy their way through the time consuming labyrinthine CARB EO process. I think SEMA should start petitioning for some type of simpler process for these small manufacturers so that they can stay in business and keep making all these great parts.
It really pisses me off that I am stuck with so few options if I don't want to break the law. I know it might not affect you now where you live. But it will someday, have not doubt about it. Be nice to see SEMA get the ball rolling to keep our hobby alive now rather than when everyone is nearly out of business because other states just rubberstamped the CA smog laws and they can't sell parts. I want the choice of TTix or APS, not just STS or nothing legal.
P.S. and yes I know the centrifugal are a legal option, but 13 years of fighting belt issues of one type or another and I would really rather try something different this time.
I see the STS as more of a 'might not make ultimate power but makes more than you will ever need or be able to use on the street and you can still brag you have twin turbos'. Having had a number of high horsepower street cars you really hit a wall for road race, meaning not a full drag oriented car, at around 600 rwhp on the street. Beyond that it's just lots of grief and chassis issues and driveline annoyances. And if you could ever get through all that stuff, if you ever tried to unleash it on the street you would have to be crazy. I think the STS kits can hit that 600 rwhp number so figure they will work just fine for most street people.
For me, as I said in an earlier post it's very simple. Smog technician looks under the hood. Smog tech see's aftermarket parts. Smog tech asks for documentation/sticker with a Green Diamond (1) on it. You either have it, or you no longer have a registerable street car. That simple.
I have argued with different smog techs and state referee's until I was blue in the face about the fact that the car DOES pass the tailpipe test and DOES have all the emissions controls in place. All I ever get is the stoneface "but it doesn't have a CARB EO#...fail visual".
With all the Green movement stuff just picking up pace and small carbon footprints and hybrids and all that, more and more states are just rubber stamping Californias already in place and very established emissions laws to save the trouble of setting up their own. It is no longer a matter of if you will have to get your car to pass a visual check along with a tailpipe test, it's just a matter of when will it come to your town.
Personally I think this puts a unfair burden on small volume specialty parts manufacturers who can't afford to buy their way through the time consuming labyrinthine CARB EO process. I think SEMA should start petitioning for some type of simpler process for these small manufacturers so that they can stay in business and keep making all these great parts.
It really pisses me off that I am stuck with so few options if I don't want to break the law. I know it might not affect you now where you live. But it will someday, have not doubt about it. Be nice to see SEMA get the ball rolling to keep our hobby alive now rather than when everyone is nearly out of business because other states just rubberstamped the CA smog laws and they can't sell parts. I want the choice of TTix or APS, not just STS or nothing legal.
P.S. and yes I know the centrifugal are a legal option, but 13 years of fighting belt issues of one type or another and I would really rather try something different this time.
Of course, to eveyone reading this in general, ANY FI is more fun than stock so to make insulting and disparaging comments about ANY system compared to another helps no one and is pretty immature. JMO.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,474
Likes: 2
From: Detroit
Anyone who has gone through a full forced induction build out will tell you that the cost difference between one kit over another is chicken feed on the scheme of things.
Select a kit that delivers the amount of power you desire and in the way you desire it (this separates a lot of kits).
I tried a ProCharger and a TTi Stage X kit. From my perspective and experience with both, the turbo option meets my needs the best.
I've had the TTi X kit since 05 and it's been rock solid.
Select a kit that delivers the amount of power you desire and in the way you desire it (this separates a lot of kits).
I tried a ProCharger and a TTi Stage X kit. From my perspective and experience with both, the turbo option meets my needs the best.
I've had the TTi X kit since 05 and it's been rock solid.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 8,840
Likes: 43
From: State of Confusion.
Anyone who has gone through a full forced induction build out will tell you that the cost difference between one kit over another is chicken feed on the scheme of things.
Select a kit that delivers the amount of power you desire and in the way you desire it (this separates a lot of kits).
I tried a ProCharger and a TTi Stage X kit. From my perspective and experience with both, the turbo option meets my needs the best.
I've had the TTi X kit since 05 and it's been rock solid.
Select a kit that delivers the amount of power you desire and in the way you desire it (this separates a lot of kits).
I tried a ProCharger and a TTi Stage X kit. From my perspective and experience with both, the turbo option meets my needs the best.
I've had the TTi X kit since 05 and it's been rock solid.
I do understand what you're saying though and you've lived by your own advice! That's why your car runs as well as it does!
Pinching penny's on a Full blown FI build will get stuff done halfway and when you're looking for the Crazy power that some of you Guys have, money is pretty much a necessity!
Merry Christmas!
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Verdad Gallardo
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,474
Likes: 2
From: Detroit
The supercharger project had a $5,000 budget. Yeah, I know - I was only kidding myself.
By the time I switched to turbos I didn't care about cost, I wanted reliability. I'm at a bit of a disadvantage in the sense that I don't turn my own wrenches, so reliability was absolutely essential.
There were only a few areas that I'd probably do differently if I were starting over. I would have started with a forged motor and an auto car.. That would have saved thousands..
Merry Christmas to you as well.
Mark
By the time I switched to turbos I didn't care about cost, I wanted reliability. I'm at a bit of a disadvantage in the sense that I don't turn my own wrenches, so reliability was absolutely essential.
There were only a few areas that I'd probably do differently if I were starting over. I would have started with a forged motor and an auto car.. That would have saved thousands..
Merry Christmas to you as well.
Mark