Car won't move: SD tune problem??? Experts needed!!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 509
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From: Saskatoon
Car won't move: SD tune problem??? Experts needed!!
My dad currently has the car in bumhole sml. town Saskatchewan, Canada..approx 1000km away from me, so I can't even help.
He has been driving the car off and on for fun for the last 3 weeks with no problems.
Today/yesterday he went to go take the car from their household garage to where it will stored for the winter.
The car starts and idles fine, however now as soon as he applies any load to the car, in any gear to try and move it....it just dies??
Hes tried it easily 100 times and each time it just dies as soon as he lets the clutch out, fast, slow, with a 4,000rpm headstart you name it.
So, the car is 2bar SD tuned and to be honest it hasnt been tuned properly at all since it came to Canada (came from Houston and then Colorado). The last guy to "tune" it had it 100% open loop. I took it to a friend with EFI live in August and he put me in closed loop to improve driveability...which it did.
So, ever since its been closed loop SD, its never been drivin in anything colder than say 15* C. Right now, back home its about 5* with really dry, dead winter air.
Im thinking this is a tune issue where the car is going into VE tables that have never been tuned??? That or else something is srsly effed. Either way, the car is literally standed in my dads garage.
HALPz!!
He has been driving the car off and on for fun for the last 3 weeks with no problems.
Today/yesterday he went to go take the car from their household garage to where it will stored for the winter.
The car starts and idles fine, however now as soon as he applies any load to the car, in any gear to try and move it....it just dies??
Hes tried it easily 100 times and each time it just dies as soon as he lets the clutch out, fast, slow, with a 4,000rpm headstart you name it.
So, the car is 2bar SD tuned and to be honest it hasnt been tuned properly at all since it came to Canada (came from Houston and then Colorado). The last guy to "tune" it had it 100% open loop. I took it to a friend with EFI live in August and he put me in closed loop to improve driveability...which it did.
So, ever since its been closed loop SD, its never been drivin in anything colder than say 15* C. Right now, back home its about 5* with really dry, dead winter air.
Im thinking this is a tune issue where the car is going into VE tables that have never been tuned??? That or else something is srsly effed. Either way, the car is literally standed in my dads garage.
HALPz!!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 509
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From: Saskatoon
I thought the steering wheel locked when this happened??
IF this is the case, what can be done to fix???
And yes, things are ok until car moves.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,088
Likes: 1,829
From: Metro Detroit Michigan
From what I understand, this issue was fixed via. recal. However, I've had the message pop up a few times AND today my dad actually called saying it said "service column lock"
I thought the steering wheel locked when this happened??
IF this is the case, what can be done to fix???
And yes, things are ok until car moves.
I thought the steering wheel locked when this happened??
IF this is the case, what can be done to fix???
And yes, things are ok until car moves.
I think there's a "sticky" in "tech" on column lock issues. If someone here doesn't respond with what to do, look there.
Last edited by Warp Factor; Nov 23, 2009 at 01:15 AM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 509
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From: Saskatoon
I found the sticky. The car has been giving the pull key wait 10 sec crap once and awhile. And now, apparently its giving the service column error
I found that tech sticky
Q I had the recall done and now after a few weeks my car is getting the dreaded “Service Column Lock” error message and I can’t drive it because the fuel is shut off. What should I do?
A You have the following choices: 1) return to the dealer and make them fix it; 2) A4 cars - replace or remove the Harness "K" assembly; 3) remove the recall mods and restore to original; 4)MN6/M12 cars only - go into your passenger footwell, locate the relay added by the recall mod, remove the relay altogether and bypass the circuit as described below (my choice).
I found that tech sticky
Q I had the recall done and now after a few weeks my car is getting the dreaded “Service Column Lock” error message and I can’t drive it because the fuel is shut off. What should I do?
A You have the following choices: 1) return to the dealer and make them fix it; 2) A4 cars - replace or remove the Harness "K" assembly; 3) remove the recall mods and restore to original; 4)MN6/M12 cars only - go into your passenger footwell, locate the relay added by the recall mod, remove the relay altogether and bypass the circuit as described below (my choice).
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,831
Likes: 4
From: Vacaville Ca
St. Jude Donor '13
Some people have fixed the problem by removing the column lock solenoid. If you also clear the codes it would not actually lock even if it thinks it is locked. I would get the column lock bypass wired fix from corvettes of Houstan. That is the one I used.
Good luck, don't worry does not sound like a tune problem, tunes don't change by themselves.
Good luck, don't worry does not sound like a tune problem, tunes don't change by themselves.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
From: Saskatoon
Some people have fixed the problem by removing the column lock solenoid. If you also clear the codes it would not actually lock even if it thinks it is locked. I would get the column lock bypass wired fix from corvettes of Houstan. That is the one I used.
Good luck, don't worry does not sound like a tune problem, tunes don't change by themselves.
Good luck, don't worry does not sound like a tune problem, tunes don't change by themselves.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,088
Likes: 1,829
From: Metro Detroit Michigan
I know, this doesn't help you out much in your current situation.
If I was in your shoes, I'd take the car to a dealer, confront with your knowledge (and forum proof) that this is a chronic problem with these cars, assert that it's a potential safety and liability issue, and demand that they fix it for free, even if the car is out of warranty.
Worked for me.
The recall?
The deal is that one of GM's "fixes" involved shutting off the engine if the car detects a column lock issue, and the car moves over something like 2 mph. I guess it was supposed to be better than having the steering wheel lock up when going 70 mph through the twisties.
Last edited by Warp Factor; Nov 23, 2009 at 01:17 AM.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 509
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From: Saskatoon
Ok, so here is the link http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...ky-please.html
Here is says:
For MN6 & MN12 cars only:
1997
Reprogram Only
1998 built through 5/25/98
Reprogram Only
1998 built on or after 5/28/98 (CSC 01044 was performed)
Reprogram Only
1998 built on or after 5/28/98 (CSC 01044 was not performed)
Install wire kit (part#88952428) and reprogram
1999-2000 and CSC 01044 or TSC 01--02-36-008 was performed
Reprogram Only
1999-2000 and CSC 01044 or TSC 01--02-36-008 was not performed
Install wire kit (part#88952428) and reprogram
2001-2004
Reprogram Only
So, if I'm reading this correctly....all they would have done for this 2003 model is a reprogramm only. This is extremely confusing, becuase below this on the sticky it says to do this:
Q I have a MN6/M12 car, what will the recall do?
A IF you have a MN6/M12 car, the recall does NOT disable your column lock motor. It simply re-programs your PCM to guarantee your fuel is shut off at speeds above 2 mph so you cannot drive your car with the steering column locked. The column lock failure can still occur at any time and you will most likely be stranded somewhere needing to be towed to the nearest dealer for repair when it occurs.
and
Q What can happen then if my CLB gets out of sync?
A Your DIC will display "Service Steering Column Lock" error message; your steering wheel will not be locked; if you own a 1997-2000 C5 that has not had the recall implemented; you should be able to drive your car normally. You must reset your DIC each time you start your car if you are annoyed with the error message. IF you have a newer C5 (2001-2004) OR you've had the recall implemented, you will NOT be able to drive your car because the fuel will be shut off at speeds above 2 mph.
and
Q I had the recall done and now after a few weeks my car is getting the dreaded “Service Column Lock” error message and I can’t drive it because the fuel is shut off. What should I do?
A You have the following choices: 1) return to the dealer and make them fix it; 2) A4 cars - replace or remove the Harness "K" assembly; 3) remove the recall mods and restore to original; 4)MN6/M12 cars only - go into your passenger footwell, locate the relay added by the recall mod, remove the relay altogether and bypass the circuit as described below (my choice).
and the fix...which makes no sense to me at all if I just got the reprogram:
Q For MN6/M12 cars what can I do if this situation occurs?
A Go into your passenger footwell. Remove your BCM and locate the recall mod relay, remove it and add a jumper wire between the white wire (pin 30) and the orange wire (pin 87). Note that there are two orange wires, so make sure you get the right one!
I guess the only way to find out is to look and see if theres a relay on the BCM??
IF there isnt a relay, then its safe to assume that the K or CLB mod hasnt been added and I can go ahead and add one??
Here is says:
For MN6 & MN12 cars only:
1997
Reprogram Only
1998 built through 5/25/98
Reprogram Only
1998 built on or after 5/28/98 (CSC 01044 was performed)
Reprogram Only
1998 built on or after 5/28/98 (CSC 01044 was not performed)
Install wire kit (part#88952428) and reprogram
1999-2000 and CSC 01044 or TSC 01--02-36-008 was performed
Reprogram Only
1999-2000 and CSC 01044 or TSC 01--02-36-008 was not performed
Install wire kit (part#88952428) and reprogram
2001-2004
Reprogram Only
So, if I'm reading this correctly....all they would have done for this 2003 model is a reprogramm only. This is extremely confusing, becuase below this on the sticky it says to do this:
Q I have a MN6/M12 car, what will the recall do?
A IF you have a MN6/M12 car, the recall does NOT disable your column lock motor. It simply re-programs your PCM to guarantee your fuel is shut off at speeds above 2 mph so you cannot drive your car with the steering column locked. The column lock failure can still occur at any time and you will most likely be stranded somewhere needing to be towed to the nearest dealer for repair when it occurs.
and
Q What can happen then if my CLB gets out of sync?
A Your DIC will display "Service Steering Column Lock" error message; your steering wheel will not be locked; if you own a 1997-2000 C5 that has not had the recall implemented; you should be able to drive your car normally. You must reset your DIC each time you start your car if you are annoyed with the error message. IF you have a newer C5 (2001-2004) OR you've had the recall implemented, you will NOT be able to drive your car because the fuel will be shut off at speeds above 2 mph.
and
Q I had the recall done and now after a few weeks my car is getting the dreaded “Service Column Lock” error message and I can’t drive it because the fuel is shut off. What should I do?
A You have the following choices: 1) return to the dealer and make them fix it; 2) A4 cars - replace or remove the Harness "K" assembly; 3) remove the recall mods and restore to original; 4)MN6/M12 cars only - go into your passenger footwell, locate the relay added by the recall mod, remove the relay altogether and bypass the circuit as described below (my choice).
and the fix...which makes no sense to me at all if I just got the reprogram:
Q For MN6/M12 cars what can I do if this situation occurs?
A Go into your passenger footwell. Remove your BCM and locate the recall mod relay, remove it and add a jumper wire between the white wire (pin 30) and the orange wire (pin 87). Note that there are two orange wires, so make sure you get the right one!
I guess the only way to find out is to look and see if theres a relay on the BCM??
IF there isnt a relay, then its safe to assume that the K or CLB mod hasnt been added and I can go ahead and add one??
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,574
Likes: 3
From: Fredericton NB
Watchout....
I had to specifically ask my dealer to NOT re-flash my pcm.....
They installed my CLB without flashing it !
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,179
Likes: 2,306
From: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
Go in and change the fuel cut off speed from 2 mph (the dealer fix when they took off the lock plate
) to 220 mph.Then DO a CLB
Tech Contributor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,924
Likes: 78
From: Forney Texas
Just bump the max MPH to 256. I don't have my HPT computer in front of me, but it should be in the DTC/VATS tab.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,179
Likes: 2,306
From: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,088
Likes: 1,829
From: Metro Detroit Michigan
In my case, the way the dealer fixed it was by installing a new column lock motor, at GM's expense. Even if you need to pay for it, it might be cheaper than a few nights in a hotel. You can try to recover the cost from GM later.
I've been into dealers a few times for various things, and they didn't mess with the tune. I just taped several large signs to the inside of the car, one on the inside of the windshield, which read,
"Do not alter settings on the computer or car will not run"
I also had them write this on the service order.
It's probably a temporary fix, but it's worked fine for a few years. The CLB will go in sometime when I have the dash apart anyway.
Last edited by Warp Factor; Nov 23, 2009 at 11:28 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,179
Likes: 2,306
From: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,088
Likes: 1,829
From: Metro Detroit Michigan
If the column lock motor is replaced, the fuel cutoff shouldn't need to be changed. Maybe it will end up being quicker to get a CLB shipped in. Just trying to offer other options to someone who's stranded in "Bumhole, Saskatchewanin".
Last edited by Warp Factor; Nov 23, 2009 at 11:36 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,179
Likes: 2,306
From: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
Thanks, that's good to know about the CLB installation.
If the column lock motor is replaced, the fuel cutoff shouldn't need to be changed. Maybe it will end up being quicker to get a CLB shipped in. Just trying to offer other options to someone who's stranded in "Bumhole, Saskatchewanin".
If the column lock motor is replaced, the fuel cutoff shouldn't need to be changed. Maybe it will end up being quicker to get a CLB shipped in. Just trying to offer other options to someone who's stranded in "Bumhole, Saskatchewanin".
What GM did in one of the recalls was to remove the column lock. Now in their infinite wisdom, for replacing the safety feature they removed, was to re-flash to shut off fuel at 2 mph. So now if the system thinks the column is locked (even with the plate and motor removed) it will still shut off fuel a 2 mph.
A CLB solves the issue by by-passing the Column Lock wiring a simulating and sending Column Unlocked signal to the computer.
End result NO column locked signal = no codes and no fuel shut off.