BTW
Porting a Maggie ?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 2
From: Moro IL
Running an 80mm bbk throttlebody at the moment. What size is the LS2 and what modifications would I need to change it out? Stock diameter crank pulley and 3" SC pulley. Thanks for the compliment
Pat Kunz
Pat Kunz
Racer
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
From: Everett WA
I've got a maggie on my 408 forged iron block and I've been kicking around the idea of switching up to a tvs, but with the lack of guinea pigs out there I'm a little hesitant.
So my other option is to pulley down to a 2.8 which I have sitting here and up the crank pulley to an overdrive and then port the maggie ... possibly size up the rear pulleys as well.
Anyways, I was curious if you have dyno'd it with the port job and if the butt dyno says any difference too. How much was the port job if you don't mind me asking.
I figure if I can get the maggie to help produce anything over 600 whp on a 408, I'll be good. If not, I guess the tvs or kenne bell is forced! But I dont want to do that.
So my other option is to pulley down to a 2.8 which I have sitting here and up the crank pulley to an overdrive and then port the maggie ... possibly size up the rear pulleys as well.
Anyways, I was curious if you have dyno'd it with the port job and if the butt dyno says any difference too. How much was the port job if you don't mind me asking.
I figure if I can get the maggie to help produce anything over 600 whp on a 408, I'll be good. If not, I guess the tvs or kenne bell is forced! But I dont want to do that.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 2
From: Moro IL
Sidewinderx7,
Well it's currently at the dyno shop now being re-tuned. I could tell it wasn't exactly right when I put it back together after having the maggie ported, just felt kinda off (and sounded a bit off) along with it's idle problems. So I never really ran it hard, for fear of mixture or timing now being far enough off to cause some damage. So I really can't make much of a call on the butt Dyno. As I mentioned before this car was tuned last year with its current setup minus the maggie porting at 515 rwhp. The new numbers will be with a different dyno and probably a different tune, so take it for what it is worth. If my car makes 550 rwhp I'll be real happy. If mine makes 550 you should be able to make 600 with the extra cubes if you have a similiar combination. But we will hopefully see by the end of the week the results. As far as price for the porting, I had a bad bearing and a complete rebuild and cleaning along with it. The bill came to 925 total (25.00 discount for cash).
Pat Kunz
Well it's currently at the dyno shop now being re-tuned. I could tell it wasn't exactly right when I put it back together after having the maggie ported, just felt kinda off (and sounded a bit off) along with it's idle problems. So I never really ran it hard, for fear of mixture or timing now being far enough off to cause some damage. So I really can't make much of a call on the butt Dyno. As I mentioned before this car was tuned last year with its current setup minus the maggie porting at 515 rwhp. The new numbers will be with a different dyno and probably a different tune, so take it for what it is worth. If my car makes 550 rwhp I'll be real happy. If mine makes 550 you should be able to make 600 with the extra cubes if you have a similiar combination. But we will hopefully see by the end of the week the results. As far as price for the porting, I had a bad bearing and a complete rebuild and cleaning along with it. The bill came to 925 total (25.00 discount for cash).
Pat Kunz
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 5
From: San Antonio TX
Sidewinderx7,
Well it's currently at the dyno shop now being re-tuned. I could tell it wasn't exactly right when I put it back together after having the maggie ported, just felt kinda off (and sounded a bit off) along with it's idle problems. So I never really ran it hard, for fear of mixture or timing now being far enough off to cause some damage. So I really can't make much of a call on the butt Dyno. As I mentioned before this car was tuned last year with its current setup minus the maggie porting at 515 rwhp. The new numbers will be with a different dyno and probably a different tune, so take it for what it is worth. If my car makes 550 rwhp I'll be real happy. If mine makes 550 you should be able to make 600 with the extra cubes if you have a similiar combination. But we will hopefully see by the end of the week the results. As far as price for the porting, I had a bad bearing and a complete rebuild and cleaning along with it. The bill came to 925 total (25.00 discount for cash).
Pat Kunz
Well it's currently at the dyno shop now being re-tuned. I could tell it wasn't exactly right when I put it back together after having the maggie ported, just felt kinda off (and sounded a bit off) along with it's idle problems. So I never really ran it hard, for fear of mixture or timing now being far enough off to cause some damage. So I really can't make much of a call on the butt Dyno. As I mentioned before this car was tuned last year with its current setup minus the maggie porting at 515 rwhp. The new numbers will be with a different dyno and probably a different tune, so take it for what it is worth. If my car makes 550 rwhp I'll be real happy. If mine makes 550 you should be able to make 600 with the extra cubes if you have a similiar combination. But we will hopefully see by the end of the week the results. As far as price for the porting, I had a bad bearing and a complete rebuild and cleaning along with it. The bill came to 925 total (25.00 discount for cash).
Pat Kunz
not a bad price for reworking the maggie (did that include replacing the teflon coating on the rotors?). the ls2 tb is 90mm and to install it you need the ls2 tb and the input snout for the maggie to match which also makes the air path into the blower straighter. I believe that somewhere I saw a a report on replacing the stock tb with the ls2 created 30rwhp on a stock install (this would most likely result in much more on a install that is running a smaller pully and other mods).
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 2
From: Moro IL
M_T_O,
I'm not sure on what they did with the teflon coating, I'll have to check on that. In order to get the LS2 TB to install do I need to have the snout replaced or is it simply a task of drilling and taping two more holes with the existing snout?
Pat Kunz
I'm not sure on what they did with the teflon coating, I'll have to check on that. In order to get the LS2 TB to install do I need to have the snout replaced or is it simply a task of drilling and taping two more holes with the existing snout?
Pat Kunz
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 2
From: Moro IL
Well the latest update. He got the idle tables all reset and it now idles fine, well as good as it will with it's cam. It does sound a little crisper at idle now as well. He said the car has been getting quite a few compliments on it while it's been up there, he plans on recording the final dyno run so hopefully I can post it. Lets hope for good numbers. He had to fire on of his guys monday so that kinda backed him up a bit, so he didn't get a chance to tune it on the dyno yet. But should early this next week.
Just so there is a background on the numbers I'll list the build of this engine for comparison purposes.
112 maggie "ported" 3" pulley front 3.2" rear
Stock LS-1 shortblock
80mm BBK TB
Heads done by Breathless Performance
2.05intake, 1.575 exhaust
flow 303 intake at .6
flow 238 exhaust at .6
comp cam 227 intake 242 exhaut .613 lift both 113 intake centerline 115 lobe seperation
1 7/8 full length headers
x pipe w/o cats
corsa Tigershark pacecar mufflers
Racetronix fuel system
SVO 42lb injectors
This setup was previously tuned at 515hp minus the maggie porting. It's now at a different tuner but both are using the same type Dyno, so this might be interesting information. will keep all in touch
Pat Kunz
Just so there is a background on the numbers I'll list the build of this engine for comparison purposes.
112 maggie "ported" 3" pulley front 3.2" rear
Stock LS-1 shortblock
80mm BBK TB
Heads done by Breathless Performance
2.05intake, 1.575 exhaust
flow 303 intake at .6
flow 238 exhaust at .6
comp cam 227 intake 242 exhaut .613 lift both 113 intake centerline 115 lobe seperation
1 7/8 full length headers
x pipe w/o cats
corsa Tigershark pacecar mufflers
Racetronix fuel system
SVO 42lb injectors
This setup was previously tuned at 515hp minus the maggie porting. It's now at a different tuner but both are using the same type Dyno, so this might be interesting information. will keep all in touch
Pat Kunz
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 2
From: Moro IL
Ok, back with an update.
My last tune wasn't all that far off, so had nothing bad to say about Performance By Joes, last tune. He figures most of the changed he did was due to the porting. He also said he could have gotten a lot more out of it with a little alky injection, but had to keep the timing conservative without it. I know everyone is waiting for me to throw a number out so here it is 533 rwhp, so basically 18 hp for the portwork give or take(515 previously). Probably a fair figure considering the tune didn't change much and they are using the same dyno, but take it for what you think it is worth. He did say that this motor with a centri would probably be well in the 700's, given it's cam and heads (something to think about on my end
). So for my final thoughts, I'd say the portwork would probably be worth it if you already were having blower work done, and had the extra 350 to spend. Great bang for the buck, no it's not. There's a lot more bang for your buck stuff out there.
Pat Kunz
My last tune wasn't all that far off, so had nothing bad to say about Performance By Joes, last tune. He figures most of the changed he did was due to the porting. He also said he could have gotten a lot more out of it with a little alky injection, but had to keep the timing conservative without it. I know everyone is waiting for me to throw a number out so here it is 533 rwhp, so basically 18 hp for the portwork give or take(515 previously). Probably a fair figure considering the tune didn't change much and they are using the same dyno, but take it for what you think it is worth. He did say that this motor with a centri would probably be well in the 700's, given it's cam and heads (something to think about on my end
). So for my final thoughts, I'd say the portwork would probably be worth it if you already were having blower work done, and had the extra 350 to spend. Great bang for the buck, no it's not. There's a lot more bang for your buck stuff out there. Pat Kunz
Racer
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
From: Everett WA
hmm... I'm battling the maggie/centri thing myself. I really dont want to switch, but I dont feel like my forged 408 low compression iron block engine is not being used right with the maggie.
at 533, what is your psi?
at 533, what is your psi?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 2
From: Moro IL
Sidewinder,
You know I didn't ask, but I 'll send him an e-mail and hope he remembers what it peaked at. I'm starting to think the 112 maggies are best served on mild engines, oh well 533 will keep me happy for a while
Pat Kunz
You know I didn't ask, but I 'll send him an e-mail and hope he remembers what it peaked at. I'm starting to think the 112 maggies are best served on mild engines, oh well 533 will keep me happy for a while
Pat Kunz
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,295
Likes: 40
From: East Coast fl
Ok, back with an update.
My last tune wasn't all that far off, so had nothing bad to say about Performance By Joes, last tune. He figures most of the changed he did was due to the porting. He also said he could have gotten a lot more out of it with a little alky injection, but had to keep the timing conservative without it. I know everyone is waiting for me to throw a number out so here it is 533 rwhp, so basically 18 hp for the portwork give or take(515 previously). Probably a fair figure considering the tune didn't change much and they are using the same dyno, but take it for what you think it is worth. He did say that this motor with a centri would probably be well in the 700's, given it's cam and heads (something to think about on my end). So for my final thoughts, I'd say the portwork would probably be worth it if you already were having blower work done, and had the extra 350 to spend. Great bang for the buck, no it's not. There's a lot more bang for your buck stuff out there.
Pat Kunz
My last tune wasn't all that far off, so had nothing bad to say about Performance By Joes, last tune. He figures most of the changed he did was due to the porting. He also said he could have gotten a lot more out of it with a little alky injection, but had to keep the timing conservative without it. I know everyone is waiting for me to throw a number out so here it is 533 rwhp, so basically 18 hp for the portwork give or take(515 previously). Probably a fair figure considering the tune didn't change much and they are using the same dyno, but take it for what you think it is worth. He did say that this motor with a centri would probably be well in the 700's, given it's cam and heads (something to think about on my end
). So for my final thoughts, I'd say the portwork would probably be worth it if you already were having blower work done, and had the extra 350 to spend. Great bang for the buck, no it's not. There's a lot more bang for your buck stuff out there. Pat Kunz
Thats kinda what I figured. Not too shabby. Now grab that LS2 TB and new snout....and run it like that. Would probably pick up another 15 wheel across the board.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 2
From: Moro IL
Smoove, I'm sure I'll be looking into that in the future. right now money for fun stuff is tapped out
Pat Kunz
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 2
From: Moro IL
My last Dyno guy (Turbo Connection), just sent me an e-mail that was kinda interesting. Said that he had a G8 in that came from performance by Joes (the cars initial tuner with the blower). They made a base run with it, no mods done since last tune and it ended up about 30hp shy of Joe's numbers. He knows I was kinda doing a guinea pig thing with the maggie, so he thought it might help with my info. So where does this leave the maggie porting? good question. Unfortunately the best test would have been to run it before the porting and after on the same dyno with the same tuner. But given the situation this would give a range of around 18 to 48, awfully big range. I think we need another guinea pig, this time tested on the same dyno
He said that Steigemeyer's dyno tends to run the same numbers as his, so the 69's numbers will at least be comparable if I do work to it in the future
Pat Kunz
He said that Steigemeyer's dyno tends to run the same numbers as his, so the 69's numbers will at least be comparable if I do work to it in the future Pat Kunz
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,179
Likes: 2,306
From: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
IDK
I run my 112 on a stock lower end LS1 with Patriot Heads and a relatively mild cam with Kooks LTs and High Flo cats and get 502 rwhp thru an A4 on 6 psi boost. Was able to get 520 the backed it off a little for a saftey margin here in the Vegas heat.
I honestly think your cam is costing you at least 30 rwhp.
What is your torque # and where on the curve is you power being made.
My guess is over 5k rpm.
I run my 112 on a stock lower end LS1 with Patriot Heads and a relatively mild cam with Kooks LTs and High Flo cats and get 502 rwhp thru an A4 on 6 psi boost. Was able to get 520 the backed it off a little for a saftey margin here in the Vegas heat.
I honestly think your cam is costing you at least 30 rwhp.
What is your torque # and where on the curve is you power being made.
My guess is over 5k rpm.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 2
From: Moro IL
VegasVette,
Torque is 513 peaking around 4250-4500, hovers around 500 from 3750-5000. Hp peak is around 6250, stays over 500hp from about 5200-6500.
curious as to why you think the cam is costing me that much power? Cam was in the car when I got it so don't worry about hurting my feelings pointing out any flaws.
Pat Kunz
Torque is 513 peaking around 4250-4500, hovers around 500 from 3750-5000. Hp peak is around 6250, stays over 500hp from about 5200-6500.
curious as to why you think the cam is costing me that much power? Cam was in the car when I got it so don't worry about hurting my feelings pointing out any flaws.
Pat Kunz
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 2
From: Moro IL
An update to the porting a maggie saga. My buddies Z06 which was originally tuned on the dyno my car was originally tuned on. Is now being tuned at the shop that tuned my car after the maggie porting. So in essence we have a way to figure out some of the dyno descrepency and better figure out the real porting gain. His car at the old shop dynoed 420 rwhp, at the new shop it dynoed just under 400rwhp 398 on its baseline run. This has been experience by my tuner betweent the two dyno's before, that his tends to read lower. So my current tuner's dyno reads about 20hp less then the original tuner. So my original numbers before the porting (old tuner) was 515 rwhp, knock 20 off of that at we are at 495. Which in theory is what should have been read on my new tuner's dyno, if I had a base run before the ported maggie. So my actual gain should have been 495-533, with the porting and the tune. So maybe the maggie porting is possibly worth something in the 30-40hp range. Obviously this is all theory, but it does have some evidence to back it.
Patrick
Patrick
