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What it really takes to make Big HP on H/C SC setup

 
Old 03-26-2002, 03:32 AM
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jbsblownc5
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Default What it really takes to make Big HP on H/C SC setup

I figured I'd chime in this section since I've spent QUITE a bit of time sorting out all the problems and issues involved in this setup. I have basically got it all worked out with the help of alot of research and trial and error. If you have a ATI, PTC, Magna or Carrol kit and want to make big #s, they all require some of the same basic components. I had the unique advantage of Steve cole walking me through many of the rough spots as well as Dyno tuning the car. The basics are key way the crank keep the belt from slipping, and deliver enough gas to keep up with air flow. It wasn't that hard to make power up to 5200, but to get a smooth dyno curve up to 6600 took some work as well luck not to mention a S H I T load of dyno pulls. For H/C SC, the cam is very important as well as dropping the compression. There are a few more details to address, but I'll try to answer any questions if there are any. When everything comes together, the end results are a silky smooth powerhouse!
JB
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Old 03-26-2002, 07:16 AM
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rwj383
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Default Re: What it really takes to make Big HP on H/C SC setup (jbsblownc5)

what i wonder is if any of the other S/C guys will realize what youve learned. everything you mentioned is the basic buildingblocks to BIG power of forced induction. everyone else have not taken the time to meet these requirements and are settling for a far inferior setup. now, this all may be due to expense by itself. i know that for myself the 8000$ needed to just hang an S/C would definitely keep me from doing the CR proper. but i will say this...there is no excuse not to install a bigger fuel pump AT LEAST when boosting big #'s. they're not that expensive. i reading that a lot of people are just installing the centrifugal S/C with no other mod's than injectors and a re-swung PCM. i dont know how they're getting away with the stock fuel system. which fuel pump did you go with? I talked th ARE 2 weeks ago about a dual 255lph fuel pump setup on that will fit stock in the tank. VOILA!! no other mod's needed. i am holding out for that. you are putting up serious #'s. i really respect that. you went the distance. kudos!


[Modified by rwj383, 5:17 AM 3/26/2002]
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Old 03-26-2002, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: What it really takes to make Big HP on H/C SC setup (rwj383)

I overnighted my fuel pump to LPE, who rebuilt it to a high flow, which I then found out is really only good to about 450 RWHP when used with a SC. I then added a Keene Bell Boost-a-pump and had all the pressure I needed. I beleive just adding the the boost-a-pump to a stock fuel pump may burn it out and not flow enough anyway.
I have only mentioned a few of the things I did. I also was warned by some of the big names that the stock bottom end would not last too long over 500 RWHP, so I did custom Ross forged blower pistions and forged rods also 10:1 compression. We treated the crankshaft for streghth and key wayed it while it was out. To get over 500 RWHP I had to add a custom vortech aftercooler and change pulley size. Of course this brought on new problems we had to deal with... serp belt was slipping and initial tube running from aftercooler to throtle body was not wide enough and had too many bends in it. It took alot
of trial and error to iron all that out, but the night I left the Dyno with 551.5 RWHP under my belt, got on the freeway and stood on it, it was all worth it.
JB
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Old 03-26-2002, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: What it really takes to make Big HP on H/C SC setup (jbsblownc5)

Aermotive makes a nice Aux pump. The Walbro 340 is nice also.
Watching A/F very important. The LS1 Scanmaster is a great tool for keeping an eye on A/F while driving. Tune for 12.2:1. 9.0:1 to 9.5:1 intercooled is safer than a stock C/R.

Consider Head Studs and a special boost type MLS Viton headgasket. Varied duration cams. Heads with more Exhaust porting. High Flow exhaust, ie: headers, hi-flow cats, mufflers cfm'd. Consider a muffler A&A bypass. LS6 Intake. Air filter, bolt-ons. Colder NGK TR6 plugs @ .035.
Also, 36# or 38# or 42# injectors (rated @ 45psi) flowing at 58psi.
Also, many replace the stock fuel pressure regulator with an Aeromotive unit. Custom PCM tuning... Wideband O2 dynos..

We should create a checklist. ;)



[Modified by MelloYellow, 9:19 PM 3/26/2002]
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Old 03-26-2002, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: What it really takes to make Big HP on H/C SC setup (MelloYellow)

Good post..I assumed there would be enough fuel with the stock pump and the upgraded injectors..In all my reading through ATI and others, this was never mentioned...I guess when you get the dyno work done, when dialing in after the blower install, it would show in the A/F #s.... :confused: Also mine is stock other than intake and headers....


[Modified by dbvettez06, 12:49 PM 3/26/2002]
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Old 03-26-2002, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: What it really takes to make Big HP on H/C SC setup (jbsblownc5)

thanks for the info jb... I'm nearing the time to get started on my ATI + Lunati 382 project and I've spent a great deal of time looking up every post I can find related to S/C's and preparing the engine for the load and I agree with your take on the fuel delivery completely. Nothing should be overlooked or taken lightly if your building a ***** to the wall engine :smash: Congrats on your awesome power... thing must sound beastly with that exhaust setup :D And about the belt slipping, did you need a special pulley or belt? Was keying the crank all that was required? Have fun in that monster :crazy:
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Old 03-26-2002, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: What it really takes to make Big HP on H/C SC setup (jbsblownc5)

Jbs did you ever think about sticking a stroker set up in and make it a 382 instead of just upgrading on the current set up?
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Old 03-26-2002, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: What it really takes to make Big HP on H/C SC setup (MelloYellow)

Mellow, we always hook up the A/F on the Dyno. I have the ease scanner as well, but havn't used that a whole lot.
I was talking to ARP about head studs when I did my project and they had not come out with the studs yet. I may put them in down the road with a small shot of nos just for kicks. I'll have to check into that MLS Viton Headgasket when I do.
You have a good list there Mellow, let me see now, I have a cam grind with long exaust duration, my heads were sent back and had comp brought back down to 10:1 as well as some exaust porting done. I run TTS headers, 3" inlet and outlet Random tec High flow Cats that dump into the Borla XR-1 exaust. The sound as well as the flow is awsome. I have the LS6 intake, A modified Vortex which grabs cold air from the front behind the Z06 sceens, Champion gold plugs 2401 gapped at .35, and 42# injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator and a custom Dyno tune by Steve Cole.

Led fut, I changed to a gates belt and a larger idler pulley and the belt stopped slipping. I may go with the 8 rib down the road, but right now it's holding well. We just keyed the crank while it was out.
Good luck with your monster!


1990 bevile, I though about a stroker at the time, but the wait was so long.
JB



[Modified by jbsblownc5, 6:07 PM 3/26/2002]
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Old 03-26-2002, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: What it really takes to make Big HP on H/C SC setup (jbsblownc5)

Great post, I learned a lot. Now how about those of us who don't want to go outrageous - seems like the ATI Procharger kit would do it without all that you mention. Sure, the numbers wouldn't be stratospheric, but after a certain point, isn't it diminishing returns? And then aren't you really limited by traction? (and $'s!)
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Old 03-26-2002, 09:27 PM
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Default Re: What it really takes to make Big HP on H/C SC setup (fxrhm)

The ATI procharger kit seems to be decent for quite a jump in HP. I know that the first few out there found out that they had to go back and key way due to spinning the crank. Time will tell how the basic kit holds up. Even the initial Carrol kit I had put on needed some modification to work properly and as most of us know, this HP thing can be addicting. I plan on keeping my car for along time and therefore chose to take certain precautions in the building of the project. I believe some are safegaurds and some are imparitive for a safe and functional setup. It is true that the more HP you make the harder it is to make it. Traction can definately be a problem, but once you hook up and get going :D :cheers: :D :cheers:
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Old 03-26-2002, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: What it really takes to make Big HP on H/C SC setup (jbsblownc5)

Mellow, we always hook up the A/F on the Dyno. I have the ease scanner as well, but havn't used that a whole lot.
I was talking to ARP about head studs when I did my project and they had not come out with the studs yet. I may put them in down the road with a small shot of nos just for kicks. I'll have to check into that MLS Viton Headgasket when I do.
You have a good list there Mellow, let me see now, I have a cam grind with long exaust duration, my heads were sent back and had comp brought back down to 10:1 as well as some exaust porting done. I run TTS headers, 3" inlet and outlet Random tec High flow Cats that dump into the Borla XR-1 exaust. The sound as well as the flow is awsome. I have the LS6 intake, A modified Vortex which grabs cold air from the front behind the Z06 sceens, Champion gold plugs 2401 gapped at .35, and 42# injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator and a custom Dyno tune by Steve Cole.
You've got a great setup! I'd grab an LS1 Scanmaster if you don't have one. I'll live and die by mine. Am getting there with my setup.. slowly.. Trying to do this the smarter lower cost way right now.
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