So Im recently informed that Intercoolers are a thing of the past!! That running Meth and Meth ONLY is where its at to keep IAT's and Detonation away. Now why the heck am I spending money on an intercooled twin turbo setup!!

Looking to hear more info on a very reliable system that wont kill a motor if the pump goes and has some type of fail safe.

 

depending on what fuel your running you may or may not need and intercooler to run a turbo. i know i'll be running some alcohol and wont want the extra weight of a intercooler setup

 

See the mustang guys do this alot. Just add meth.

 

I saw a mustang over the summer one of those mach 1's or whatever they were with the shaker hood from a few years back. He had a centri blower on it with the shaker hood no intercooler and he just ran meth.

to the OP I would want an intercooler

 

So would I. I mean, why run THAT much meth. on a car driven almost daily. It just doesnt seem smart. Maybe for an all out drag car, but other than that I dont think its smart at all. Otherwise everyone in FI wouldn t even run intercoolers.

 

The photo in question shows what is obviously a low-budget home-brew build, but apart from that, there is NO problem running a forced induction system without an intercooler. If you can provide the engine with enough fuel or reduced timing or methanol to prevent any detonation, you will be fine. Low boost systems rarely benefit from the addition of an intercooler anyway. Hell, back in the mid-'90s my ride was a Firebird Formula with a 10.0:1 383" stroker, TFS heads, TPIS Mini-Ram II, and a Vortech S-Trim kit pushing 15psi. I ran 55# injectors and a big SX fuel pump. The car ran great as a daily driver, ran a best 10.79 ET, and was not intercooled.

 

Why is it not smart? Chances are favorable that if he is using the car daily, he is driving without his foot to the floorboard at every stoplight. With that size turbo on an inline-6 engine, he won't even see more than a few pounds of boost driving around town. An intercooler wouldn't help him at that point. He will only need the meth to activate under full-throttle at a predetermined boost level, which most meth injection systems allow.

 

when I got my Maggie I chose the IC version although they offered a Non IC version

 

Apparently that motor is supposed to push 500-700hp. Im jw about crazy high IAT's. I know meth helps, but as a complete substitute?

The reason I felt it wasnt smart was if the pump fails, motor will too. This motor supposedly isnt just a low boost build or anything, he's shoot for 500+ so Id imagine things would get pretty hot. WHy would you want a setup fully dependent on meth?

Just wondering, good info tho FYRARMS

 

As long as the meth is working when he runs higher boost pressures, he will be okay.

That is why I wouldn't run meth in any application, unless there was an integrated safety feature in the system. For example, in high-end stand-alone systems such as Motec and ProEFI, if the meth stops, the system instantly pulls timing or cuts boost pressure.

That depends on the volume of air that turbo is pushing. Not sure what size turbo he runs, but many single-turbo Toyotas (obviously his engine) will make 500+rwhp on the lowest boost setting and pump gas. I don't know what boost levels he is planning on running.

Could be any reason, really. Lack of space, no front grille opening, wants to be different, etc. Based on that picture, he has a problem with affordability, too.

For the record, I am not a fan of meth-only intercooling. I just know it is done often.

 

All good to know

 

Friend of mine runs a no intercooler, meth dependent setup on his '98 mustang gt. Makes over 600rwhp @20 pzi through a t-trim.

 

OP's attempt to be a smart *** has failed.

PLENTY of cars that use alcohol as fuel (especially drag cars) run with no intercooler. Also a lot of low boost turbo/SC kits also come without an intercooler.

Also OP the car in that picture is probably faster than yours.

 

Ok Ill play,

I said a DAILY driven car. A car that is solely dependent on meth with IAT's Lower then 130*? I couldnt see that being very probably. I wouldnt want a car dependent on meth as said above by other people, if that goes so can your whole motor. I plan on getting a 434 LSX, you think I want to take that kind of chance??

This was all a comparison to a boosted vette, Ive spent a damn good bit of time on this forum, I havent seen any non intercooled (besides maggie) high hp builds done on a vette that is used as a regular car. Where am I wrong? Did I once talk about a drag car in my first post? No because thats a different story.

So where Is my fail? this thread wasnt even about not using them in general, Im sure it can be done, but Im talking about reliability. Why'd ya have to come in my thread and spew nonsense like an ignorant child lol Whatever gets my wpm up I guess. You have any more to discuss with me, pm, Im not fouling up my own thread with nonsense. I know it can be done, but if its THAT good, why isnt every vette owner doing it? See my point??

My car isnt done yet but to give you an idea...



I have a lot more work but...........I think Ill be alright.

 

because most vette owners are ignorant and sheep!!! they buy crap all the time that don't need because someone else told them they needed it, usually with that person not ever using the product themselves...or worst, "sponsors saying you "have to have it" its like have a big motor with a blower setup to make big power..only people with no since do it... I make well over 1xxx...with a 346..

ps.. I've been saying intercoolers are not needed for a while..only in the vette world are they needed... i guess just for show

 

See I know your background and and not just bashing. I appreciate your insight.

So to save me from mounting these damn A2W intercoolers, and finding out a good water pump and finishing my lines. What do you suggest?

Alky control is honestly that good? Im afraid (because I've heard this before) of a pump failing and in a couple seconds cyl. 5 went and motor was toast. I cant afford built motors left and right

I heard people on hear say they use "straight meth", my assumption was it just wasnt cut down.

So Im all ears

 

meth cools the air charge
water cools the chamber

So, in theory... There is a mixture out there for everyone, example..
You can only run so much meth until it becomes useless.. so, say you run 2 M15 nozzles and spray 100% meth... That's 30 gals/hr but maybe your setup only uses say 16 gals a/hr to be efficient because of your fuel system and such.. You could run a 49/51 mixture of meth and water on the same setup and get some benefits of water injection. BTW water injection has been around since the 40's with old fight jets..

Anyways.. Meth is used for detonation control.. not necessarily to just cool the air charge... which is why some people run race gas or E85 instead of meth.

The key to understand if you need an intercooler or not is understanding what your trying to accomplish with it? When meth sprays, it cools the air charge down to roughly 75 degrees almost instantly. That's here in Houston when its 110 out here during the summer, no intercooler will ever cool any charge down to that temp or that fast. The only reason people say to use it is to keep the driving around IATs to maintain the PCM pulling timing when temps get higher then 145 or so from stock if i remember correctly.. You can change the tune and may it higher, say to 155 or so and never have a issue.. which is why intercooler are not needed for the most part... there are instants out there that an intercooler might be beneficial.. but most dont need it...


I will say this.. I do run a intercooler.. mainly because i'm to lazy to take it out.. but I run 2 m15 nozzles with 100%meth, making 26 psi of boost and i do it all on 87 octane going thru a aluminum intake.

 

Put it this way,

If you spray meth-you car just became meth dependant-because meth is fuel.

Plenty of cars don't run intercoolers-been doing it for years. Back in 97 when I was running a Novi 2000 we never used a intercooler. Made 20 psi and ran mid 9's@145+, drove the car everywhere-raced it all the time-used the 6BTM on pump and turned it off when we ran good fuel.

Just look at the NMRA Renegade and Real street classes, no meth, no intercoolers-the Renegade cars run low 8's and the Real Street cars run 9's.

Then you have alot of the old school blow through setups-one of the Fastest YSi setups runs no cooler and he's running 4.9's@140 with a YSi.

Depending on how you build the combo-I wouldn't be afraid to ditch the cooler-free up the radiator cavity-pickup the boost at was lost in the cooler and just spray meth.

 

Guys, very good info here, Im glad this thread has turned into a very informative one. Ill be sure to change the first post maybe if the title (if possible)


So based on your alls experience, How much meth do you go thru? How reliable are these systems? How expensive is meth?

and What about Motec and PROefi as stated above?

 

The Motec and ProEFI systems are stand-alone EFI setups, sometimes used as piggybacks. They are extremely expensive and should not be used strictly to control meth injection. LOL