howdy y'all!

i know most of y'all do this kind of stuff in your sleep, but for the noobie here, please indulge & educate me for a little bit. as most of y'all already know, i've currently got a TVS2300 on my mostly-stock 2000 FRC. the whole idea when i bought the blower was that *if* i ever blew this engine, i'd just swap it over to a forged stroker. and just as it goes for anybody who starts doing power mods, the beast has been unleashed & i'm looking to start that 'backup' plan here in the near future and just put the LS1 in my truck. that said... i could use some help/suggestions because i'm new to spec'ing an engine for a specific build, but i've done a bit of studying & am willing to learn everything i can to better understand it all (or at least as much as i can).

this car is just a weekend street fun-mobile that occasionally does some road coursing (not gonna be as much track stuff with the new engine, though) and every now & then a straight pull or two. standard weekend vette playing around kinda stuff. my goal for this new engine setup is to make 700+ hp and tq to the ground (go big or go home, right? ). yes, i understand everything else behind the engine has to be taken care of as well... it's all coming in steps.

anyway, here's what i'm thinking - please share your corrections, inputs, and rationale as to why it will or won't work.

the mods i have now were purchased with this build in mind, so i'd prefer to continue to use them: ARH 1 7/8" LTs with cats & 3" X/midpipe stepped to 2.5" mufflers/cutouts. i've also got LG's version of the blackwing intake, a single catch can, and an MSD boost-a-pump helping feed some Siemens 60# injectors in the blower. lastly, i'm running a stock LS7 throttle body.

due to the limitations of roots blowers as well as overall driving feel & engine safety, i'd rather make most of this power on the engine and keep the boost a little under 15psi (also because i don't want to buy a new gauge not that i'd let that be a limiting factor ). that said, i've been thinking about doing a LS2 402 or something along those lines and keeping the compression in the neighborhood of 10-10.5:1. i've had some people say the 2300 can't push that kind of air on a 400ci+ motor, but i see them making 6-10psi on high compression 427s, so i tend to doubt that. those same people are suggesting something like a 370 on 18-20psi. thoughts?

i'd also like the cam to have a bit of chop to it - not to the point of being counter-productive, but distinctly noticeable. i know overlap & boost tend to be enemies, but after talking to East TX Muscle Cars, i know it can be done. just listen to their Stage 2 Blower cam - designed for top-mount blowers on LS2/3s to hold boost while having a N/A lope. i don't know the specs on it, but i'd imagine somebody as skilled as Pat G or others could come up with a good grind for this feel/sound on a bigger engine.

i also plan on running a meth kit - not to maximize power but as a safety. just spraying over 8-ish psi to keep the temps down. don't worry... none of that 50/50, warsher fluid, HEET, or other BS - i'll be using straight meth, so the blower will be fine. thanks to one of the C6 guys for doing that research

going back to the displacement debate, if i was to stick with a smaller engine, how do y'all think a LS1 383 would fare for this build as opposed to a 370? that should likely save me from buying a new block by just building the one i have since it's only got 52kmi (but then the truck's stuck with the 5.3... not that big a deal)

i know this post probably took 3-5 minutes to read, which is much longer than the typical forum attention span, so if you're all the way down here, i commend & thank you one thing i do ask is that you only post in here if you're interested in positively contributing to this discussion. anything going on about how much peak horsepower the ECS centrifugal will make or how much easier of a build it would be using A&A's kit will be ignored. Arun & Andy are awesome guys - i've seen some great work they've done & they've helped me with a couple things in the past, but if i liked the way a centri felt & drove more than a PD blower, i would've bought one in the first place. that & i didn't spend the past year & a half defending roots & twin screw blowers to swap over now!

thanks a heap & i look forward to y'all's input.

 

nothing?

 

free bump for ya

 

All sounds good, but more cubes the better, and the better heads the better if you want 700+ on that blower. You will probably need to jump up to 80# injectors and fuel system and/or bigger pump and return line.

 

I've never owned or considered a TVS 2300 or even looked at a dyno sheet for one, so help me out here _zebra.

What kind of numbers are the high compression 427's making on 6 to 10 psi with a TVS 2300?

 

TVS has some potential-here's what I would do.

4"-4.030" bore-stock stroke-keep the stock stroke! Bigger is not better-size the motor to the blower-not the other way around.

As for head-TFS are my choice but a set of Patriot 317's with the 2.08 valve will work great as well.

Compression-I agree 100% with you here-10-10.25

Cam-I can hook you up with something that will make jam

Pulley that blower up and you will be happy for sure

Big bore-stock stroke-let the blower do it's job.

 

thanks

but i want to use my stock LS1 heads!

yeah, i plan on getting some that yawn at whatever my CFM requirements end up being. i believe in building something right the first time so you ain't just peeing away money chasing limfacs. same goes for the fuel - i wanted a better in-tank to start with instead of the BAP, but the original install shop did it behind my back when they couldn't get an aeromotive within their own self-imposed time frame . oh well... at least the new pump should be good with a BAP supporting it. and from what i've heard, the 60s should be okay if i rig up a return line, right?

i don't remember the specs on many of them, but most i've seen are 600-ish. granted they're using LS7 heads or better with the biggest difference being the rectangle port manifold on the Maggie.

as for dyno sheets, here's from my car - 1st @ 8psi, 2nd @ 10psi



i guess the reason i was shying away from that idea is because the smaller the engine, the more boost you gotta use, meaning the blower's gotta spin faster, which puts it farther out of it's sweet spot & creates a lot more heat.

i found the compressor map for the 2300. if i knew the airflow i'd need for the power i want, it'd be easy to figure out what pulleys or boost level i'd need to keep the blower as efficient as possible.



and from talking to a couple more shops who've built some big power using these superchargers, my biggest hangup would actually be the lower manifold itself. the older cathedral-port style just don't flow as good as the rectangle-port one for the LS3/7/A/9. other than that, they've usually made the big numbers on bigger engines like 416s, 427s, and even a 434.

one thing that was brought up was the cost:benefit analysis of using an LS2 block vs LS3. i ain't worked with either, so i don't know the differences, but i hear the LS3 is better for boosted applications. one guy referenced a C6 he built for a customer (seen here - i hope they changed the mufflers ) putting down almost 750 with a 416 LS3 @ 14.5psi using 9.5:1 compression and ported LS3 heads.

even though some companies make cathedral port heads for the bigger-cube engines like this, i reckon i'm gonna have to find out how much air this manifold can actually move or if it's gonna make my life 1000x easier to just buy a new one.

 

called magnuson on friday just to see what it'd be to swap to the newer rectangle-port manifold...

i'd have to send my unit to them, so there's 2-way shipping on a 75lb unit + buying the $1200 manifold. that quickly became a lower priority option.

 

So, have you decided on a setup yet ?

 

These guys installed a SDPD 402 and blower in my C5, very very reliable. Just don't get carried away with boost and hp/Tq. 600 to the wheels on the street makes for a great hot rod. You will love the low end torque on a 402!!!! Good luck in what you decide.

 

still waiting on more info from some people, but after some more looking, a 416 LS3 wouldn't be that much more than doing a 402 and i'd be starting with a little better platform.

thing is, i'm already pretty close to that with my LS1 now, so it would be hard to justify a complete engine swap for such (relatively) small gain. i could do that easily with a new bottom end & heads.

 

To the OP here you will be doing good on what you are looking for to go with what Arun is telling you to do here. The man has been in these car from the time they have came out.. One of the best tuners in this forum.. Robert

 

Robert, i don't doubt his expertise at all... i'd just like an explanation as to why he's recommending high boost on a smaller engine as opposed to medium boost on a larger one knowing that positive displacement blowers are notorious for getting increasingly hot & inefficient the harder you push them therefore driving the IATs higher & becoming counter-productive. if i'm wrong, please tell me why as opposed to just saying "oh, listen to the man - he's smart". i ain't discounting any of his info because of this, but even though he sells/installs/tunes PD superchargers, i know pretty much all the big builds he does are with centrifugals.

my tendency towards the larger engines are from observing other similar setups already making near these power levels. heck, FunCool (with a ton of elbow grease) pushed 20psi on a 402 out of a little MP112 and made 700hp/800tq before the nitrous. i have no doubts the 2300 can move the air; it's just finding where it would be optimized that's the tricky part.

yes, with a smaller displacement, i won't have to turn the unit as fast to make higher pressure, but with higher pressure, that creates higher cylinder temps making it more prone to detonation should i get a bad batch of gas or trouble with the meth system. that's what i'm trying to shy away from.