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Converting push lock nylon meth lines to braided hoses

 
Old 02-11-2016, 05:23 PM
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Mike04
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Default Converting push lock nylon meth lines to braided hoses

Has anyone convert the push lock nylon lines to teflon lined braided hose with AN style connections on there meth kits? I would assume there are general fitting adaptors that can be found. Anyone have experience doing this?

Running nylon push on lines with meth in hot areas makes me a little uneasy but a lot of kits offer that style line, such as AEM and Snow(recommending 50% meth).

I'm running Alky Control and have had great results.

Last edited by Mike04; 02-11-2016 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 02-12-2016, 01:45 PM
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Depends on the pushlock fitting thread/pitch. Find that out and you'll most likely find an -an fitting that will work. Pretty straight forward. Those push lock fittings work though. We have a massive 94mm BW turbo shoved into my buddies F-Body and he's running twin meth nozzles with the red pushlock hose setup (SNOW performance) and there's no issues.
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Old 02-12-2016, 08:41 PM
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They have to work, lots of them out there. To me the heat in the engine bay and plastic holding flammable liquid is cause for concern.

I've never run 50% meth and 50% water mix, is it even that combustible or will it ignite?
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Old 02-12-2016, 10:40 PM
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Ok, not trying to make you nervous, but the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for VP M1 Methanol shows a flash point of just a hair over 60° F. Meaning, at that temp it's giving off sufficient vapors to ignite. Strangely the VP MSDS for the Methanol doesn't list an autoignition temp, but according to Google (who knows all) it's around 878° F. So IF you were to spring a leak.......bad things could very potentially happen in an engine bay (even at a 50/50 mix, those numbers will be higher but still attainable). That said.....

Odds are against that happening with proper line routing, heat shielding if necessary, keep the lines secure so as not to abrade on anything.......etc. Snow Performance wouldn't use a sub-par line to move a very fire hazardous fuel through an engine bay. They've got a ton of kits out there for a reason.

FWIW all the FI cars I've personally had (My Trans Am and my Vette) both had Alky Control kits on them.
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Old 02-13-2016, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike04 View Post
Has anyone convert the push lock nylon lines to teflon lined braided hose with AN style connections on there meth kits? I would assume there are general fitting adaptors that can be found. Anyone have experience doing this?

Running nylon push on lines with meth in hot areas makes me a little uneasy but a lot of kits offer that style line, such as AEM and Snow(recommending 50% meth).

I'm running Alky Control and have had great results.
You can buy plenty of nozzle holders and nozzles for a -4 fitting, and any teflon -4 hose and fittings can be used throughout.

Some pumps however have a 1/4 push in fitting built into the pump which makes it a little more awkward here.
I took a -4 stainless male-male 90deg fitting and had one side turned down to 1/4 OD with a little groove near the end to ensure it would positively lock into the pump push fitting.

So everywhere else is AN fittings except the pump itself, but cant see it ever coming out by accident.

If the pump has threaded fittings built in, then it's just a case of getting a suitable fitting from NPT or whatever it is to -4

Last edited by stevieturbo; 02-13-2016 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 02-14-2016, 11:07 AM
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The line conversions have been done before. I'm pretty sure you can find all the plumbing you need at McMaster-Carr. With that said, based on my experience and a few others; the push lock lines are only part of the battle. The pumps on some of the other kits just don't seem to put out near the amount of pressure they're rated at. Not even close. If a guy buys a new meth kit with the push lock lines l, by the time he's converted all the lines and nozzles; he could have just bought an Alky Control kit.
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:41 PM
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What's so special about the Alky control pump ?

It looks like the same old pump virtually all kits used for years

Most other brands now use the Aquatec triple chamber pump
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Old 02-14-2016, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by stevieturbo View Post
You can buy plenty of nozzle holders and nozzles for a -4 fitting, and any teflon -4 hose and fittings can be used throughout.

Some pumps however have a 1/4 push in fitting built into the pump which makes it a little more awkward here.
I took a -4 stainless male-male 90deg fitting and had one side turned down to 1/4 OD with a little groove near the end to ensure it would positively lock into the pump push fitting.

So everywhere else is AN fittings except the pump itself, but cant see it ever coming out by accident.

If the pump has threaded fittings built in, then it's just a case of getting a suitable fitting from NPT or whatever it is to -4
Do you happen to have any pictures of the fitting you made ? I have a male to male -4an I was thinking of doing this very same thing.
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Old 02-15-2016, 07:48 AM
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Never did take any photos.

But if you look at the push fittings, generally there is a small metal ring with almost like teeth that grab the hose to prevent it pulling out. I basically just had the fitting machined to 1/4" OD and near where I wanted it to sit in the pump, had a very small groove machined where this locking ring sits. Just enough that it would have something to really secure onto instead of relying solely on grabbing a smooth surface.
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Old 02-15-2016, 07:49 AM
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if you google pneumatic stem fitting, you'll see what I mean, like this.

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Old 02-15-2016, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by stevieturbo View Post
What's so special about the Alky control pump ?

It looks like the same old pump virtually all kits used for years

Most other brands now use the Aquatec triple chamber pump
The alky is a modified pump if you wanna run 100% meth.

Snow like the one im using is rated at max of 50/50 mix.(using some -40degree ww)

Last edited by always faster; 02-15-2016 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:40 PM
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Reading about kits I ran across AEM's Failsafe Gauge/ softeware and Boost Control Solenoid. Anyone use these or have experience?

I run a meth dependent tune and having something like this added would be piece of mind by opening BOV if something isn't flowing correct.

Failsafe Gauge-
"It actively monitors the injection system’s ENTIRE flow curve to compensate for failure under ANY condition, allowing you to use your water/methanol system with complete peace of mind. If you have a water/methanol injection system or are considering one, you will not find a more advanced failsafe device on the market than the AEM Water/Methanol FAILSAFE Device.
•Can be used on virtually all water/methanol injection systems with either ¼” or 4mm OD tubing
•PC programmable with “Auto Set” feature that automatically creates baseline configuration
•Built-in warning lights inform user of an alarm trigger "

http://www.aemelectronics.com/produc...failsafe-gauge

Boost Solenoid
http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=pro...ntrol-solenoid

Thinking of using parts of my Alky Control kit and adding a few parts of the AEM kit.

AEM states there pump is 100% meth compatible (not recommended for safety reasons though)

Last edited by Mike04; 02-15-2016 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 02-16-2016, 02:45 PM
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I think AEM's pump is 1/4 or 3/8 NPT out. You can get that can convert to 4an or #4 JIC and you're in business. I would call AEM to confirm. The pre-made stainless braided teflon lines should be easy to get too.

Last edited by [email protected] Performance; 02-16-2016 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 02-16-2016, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I think AEM's pump is 1/4 or 3/8 NPT out. You can get that can convert to 4an or #4 JIC and you're in business. I would call AEM to confirm. The pre-made stainless braided teflon lines should be easy to get too.
I use the big AEM triple chamber pump, it has the push in fittings built in. You cannot use screw in fittings of any kind with it without changing the entire base of the pump.
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Old 02-16-2016, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by stevieturbo View Post
I use the big AEM triple chamber pump, it has the push in fittings built in. You cannot use screw in fittings of any kind with it without changing the entire base of the pump.
Is this the pump you are using? I could come off the pump with the push on fitting to a coupler that changes it to AN close to the pump and use my current braided lines in the engine compartment. I'd just have to locate an adaptor fitting.

I noticed in videos of the AEM pump comparing it to the flow of other pumps that it doesn't pulse/ surge. My Alky Control pump does as it runs.



or this


Last edited by Mike04; 02-16-2016 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 02-16-2016, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike04 View Post
Is this the pump you are using? I could come off the pump with the push on fitting to a coupler that changes it to AN close to the pump and use my current braided lines in the engine compartment. I'd just have to locate an adaptor fitting.

I noticed in videos of the AEM pump comparing it to the flow of other pumps that it doesn't pulse/ surge. My Alky Control pump does as it runs.

That is the AEM pump I use.

On the Alky website it shows the pump most other kits stopped using years ago, with the pressure bypass cut off switch at the bottom that causes it to pulse.
Whether it always pulses or only at lower outputs when pressure is higher I dont know.

I used this and had the long side machined down as per stem fitting image I posted previously, so it would push into the AEM pump and stay there.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-AN4-4AN-...item27d390e73b
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Old 02-16-2016, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by stevieturbo View Post
So you have the metal fitting that you machined down inserted into the pump instead of the flex line? I assumed that the plastic line material was part/ aided in the seal for that type connection. I don't have the ability to machine parts, I'll have to do some searching and see if something is commercially available.

I didn't get what you had going on from your previous post. I learned something new, thanks.

Last edited by Mike04; 02-16-2016 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 02-16-2016, 10:02 PM
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Ran across these if anyone is looking to connect to a 1/4 push lock as talked about above.






http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.c...x.php?cPath=42
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Old 02-17-2016, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike04 View Post
So you have the metal fitting that you machined down inserted into the pump instead of the flex line? I assumed that the plastic line material was part/ aided in the seal for that type connection. I don't have the ability to machine parts, I'll have to do some searching and see if something is commercially available.

I didn't get what you had going on from your previous post. I learned something new, thanks.
push fits simply seal via an o-ring on the smooth pipe.

With plastic pipe retention is via a small metal ring that bites into the plastic, or as you see with factory fittings some will have a smal groove that the metal lock ring can lock into to prevent it pushing out.

And I dont have the ability to machine parts either...anywhere with a lathe can though.

I couldnt find anything to switch from the push fit to a -4, and getting the elbow machined was simply the neatest option regardless of work involved.
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Old 02-17-2016, 08:31 AM
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PTFE-Teflon based A/N lines will work just fine(best you could get other than solid tube stainless). They have the highest (burst)pressure and temp rating.

If you are going with the black nylon line I see people using or those "push on" 1/4 hose...just make sure you use stainless tabs...and use the thicker line if you're running near anything HOT....like a turbo or a wastegate. I have personally seen fittings and the hose melt. They DO sell thicker nylon hose that holds up to more heat, as well as stainless tab'd(usually plastic-the SS has a 200 degree hotter temp rating) fittings. They're available in Y's,T's,90's, and straights.

RPS carries all that...it's called ALPHA line/hose.

Or you could get the fittings sizes,...and go all PTFE teflon hose ends. For what it's worth gasoline has a boiling temp of 95-400 degrees. I see lots of fuel systems running in the 130s... (no fires)
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