Hi,
I am looking for some effective traction control for a 680hp C5. The stock one is crappy. I've hear good things about Racelogic, but it seems that they stopped making it... Any advice?
Thanks

 

That isn't enough power for it to be worth getting a solid traction control setup in my opinion. Get some good tires. But I don't know of any standalone traction control system that works any good. You would have to do something like ProEFI. Which has fantastic traction control but it is overkill for your power IMO.

 

Agreed.

My C5Z is about 750hp, and my traction control is my right foot. It's never been an issue. Using Toyo R888's, it won't even spin in 2nd unless I instantly slam my foot to the floor at low speed. It'll even grab in 1st if I feed it quickly and give the suspension and tires a chance to work. It gets dicey in 2nd and 3rd when it's below 45F and I'm being stupid. Easily solvable by not pressing the gas pedal so hard. Common sense applies.

 

I like my recipe. A Mickey Thompson drag radial and leash boost controller. I'm currently at 700 RWHP with a single turbo and an auto trans.

 

Here you go OP.
http://moretraction.com/product/profiler/

 

Cheaper to get PRO EFI.... wow...they don't give that away.

 

750 hp?? I have only 680hp (and ok nearly 740 lbft), Michelin Pilot Super Sport 325/30 ZR19 tyres and my C5 coupe spins wheels at 1,2,3,4 gears. At 4th gear if you are going 110mph and you slam the gas pedal it spins wheels and puts you a bit sideways. Maybe there are hps and HPS ;-).

Anyway, the problem is rather accelerating rapidly at lower gears and/or in the rain. The right foot is good, but not always gives the proper result. First the twin turbo gives you some dealy (probably the blow off springs), so when you step out of the pedal the car still accelerates for .2-.4 seconds (what can be a lot of time while going sideways). Second if the factory TC steps in, it cuts the enigne for a second or so. Third, if you do a eg. 0-60 launch on the street asphalt you do much better if you have a launch control capable of cutting out single cylinders.

 

Looks good, but cost money! Racelogic was, I guess 7-8 times less....

 

The Pilot SuperSports are ok for stock power, but they are otherwise junk IMO. The Toyo R888's and the MT's mentioned above are R Compounds with a treadwear of 100 or lower. They don't last 40k miles, but they stick. Using anything less is irresponsible at these power levels.

I've driven my car in pouring rain on RComps with NO traction control or Active Handling and the car has never slipped once. My AH doesn't even work, since my lateral accelerometer failed a few years ago. I disconnected the steering position sensor back then and ever looked back.

Turbo car might be different if there is massive boost lag that comes in suddenly...but I prefer not to horse around in poor conditions in the first place. What's the point?

 

There is no tire that will make you hook in the rain. Those tires are junk. I had factory tires on my zr1 which are Michelin ps2s and at 590whp I was spinning through second. Your best option is a MT drag radial and a smaller wheel. I run 345/35/18s and have put over 1000whp down in 2nd. I wouldn't even go wot in the rain with ProEFI. The way it works is by watching front and rear wheelspeed and pulling timing if rear speed is too far from front. It would have to pull so much timing it would be dangerous for the engine.

 

And looking through the instructions...I can see no way of integrating it into a modern ecu's control system...despite that insane cost.
It's also heavily targeted at straight line use only, not sure how it would cope with anything else ?


Really...the best solution if you really feel you need a proper traction control system...is to buy an engine control ecu that offers a good system

 

Pretty sure it has other power reduction options too, as would any decent ecu.

Timing is by far the quickest means of reducing power, but as you say, this really does have limited ability to actually pull power.
Reducing power by either cutting injectors or sparks is very fast and can reduce lots of power if need be. Racelogic worked solely via the injectors.
There are pros and cons to fuel/sparks...but in reality fuel is the best so you dont end up dumping lots of raw fuel through the engine.

The other option is if using DBW, the blade can be controlled to reduce power and try and restore/maintain traction.

Some will say boost too, but boost really is by far the slowest means of traction control.

But I'm fairly sure ProEFI can do all of the above, or any of the above to meet whatever needs there are. There is a lot of trial and error to get it all right for each and every application/driver though.

 

When are you needing traction control ,i.e., what situations?

Redlight to redlight, no prep events, drift nationals, at the dragstrip, in the snow, 1/2 mile top speed events, road racing, etc.

Is the car standard or auto?

What tires are you currently using?

N2O, supercharger, turbo?

 

I missed the post where you answered most of these items.

So driving around on the street you get tire spin in 1st through 4th

6 speed transmission

Michelin Pilot Super Sport 325/30 ZR19

Turbocharged

 

I think everyone has already hit the high points:

1. Drive responsibly in the rain and don't try to apply 680hp to a wet surface with a low coefficient of friction.

2. Remove the 19 inch tires and wheels and go with a 305/35/18 MT DR at a minimum.

3. Learn how to modulate the throttle and clutch in the lower gears for optimal traction.

4. Since you are turbo-charged, you could also get a boost controller that allows for boost by gear and be able to dial power down in the lower gears and also keep the turbo from building boost quickly.


Why are you using 19" Michelins?

Are you planning to make more power in the future?

 

Yeah there are other ways of doing it which ProEFI can do but none of them work as good as timing. A good way of doing traction control with boost which ProEFI can do is boost by mph. Then you just set it up for what the tires can take and use the traction control as backup. But I think he is much better off getting wheels and tires that suite his power level. Because even with a great traction control system you are still limited to what the tire can handle.

 

I can assure you, timing is crap as a sole means of controlling power after traction is lost and you're trying to restore it. It simply cannot offer enough power reduction, unless perhaps the car is relatively low powered or there is only a very small difference between total power available vs grip available.

If traction is lost under heavy power, I can easily pull 20deg of timing and it still wont reduce enough power to restore it. And under load....pulling lots of timing is never a sensible thing to do for obvious reasons.
Cutting fuel is quite fast and offers much greater and safer power reduction for controlled levels of slip etc.
Cutting spark is also fast...but then you are dumping raw fuel through the engine, which could soak plugs and generally is not as safe.

And what you're describing isnt traction control alone. Traction control is a reaction to traction loss.
Power management to prevent traction loss in the first place is a different thing and actually has little to do with whatever traction may be available at any given time.

Whereas traction control is always working to achieve the best traction at all times, under all conditions trying to optimise on any road.

But absolutely, for all the power he has it would be a huge financial outlay when he really isnt at a level where there should be major traction issues most of the time.

 

You must have never used ProEFI or a similar high end traction control system. It works fantastic because it doesn't wait until you are smoking the tires to start pulling power. You set the allowance of slip and it keeps you from going over it. Below is a video of a first gear pull with 345/35/18s. The car made around 850whp at this time. You can hear the pulsing which is the ProEFI pulling timing then feeding it back in over and over very quickly, and you can see the car is kind of skating side to side a little because the allowed slip is set to not be too aggressive. Obviously you don't want to be using timing to control power if the car makes 1000whp and the tires can only hook 500whp. You need to have the proper power management setup then use the traction control as a backup. So in 1st where it can only handle say 500whp turn the boost way down then ramp it in as the tire can handle it. And the traction control is there in case the surface can't handle it. The same system is used on 2000whp cars and works there as well.

https://www.facebook.com/BananaZR1/videos/438142829711121/

 

I don't know about the other tires mentioned here as no experience with them (I'm sure they're fine) but 19" nt05r at 680whp would hook up 2nd easily on the street without warming them up or dropping the psi when the tires were new, and at the track when warmed up would hook 3rd most of the time at ~750whp.

 

I've never used ProEFI, but have used better systems

Timing alone is a bad method of trying to maintain traction. I've spent more than enough time testing myself. Fuel cuts are far far better and offer a wider range of control for varying conditions. But yes initially timing is the first port of call, but I'd only ever allow small timing reductions.
I've tried with large amounts of timing and as said, it's useless...and when using timing alone in that manner...actually leaves the car quite unstable and it certainly isnt doing EGT's etc any favours which is a sign it isnt doing the engine any favours.