600+whp e85 fuel pump options
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Apple Valley MN
600+whp e85 fuel pump options
Hey guys, I'm looking for some help sorting this fuel system out. Set up is a 02 z06 with v3si 3.8 pulley along with cam and headers. Shooting for low to mid 600whp. The issue is I want to keep running e85 but im afraid my current system isn't up to the task. It was loosing fuel pressure before I added the bap, I'm not sure if it's going to be enough. (340lhp pump and kb bap)
I was hoping there was an easy/good option duel in tank fuel pump set up but I haven't really been able to find any. Do you guys have any set ups you'd suggest? If in have to I'll just go back to gas and re tune until I get it sorted out.
thanks for the help!
I was hoping there was an easy/good option duel in tank fuel pump set up but I haven't really been able to find any. Do you guys have any set ups you'd suggest? If in have to I'll just go back to gas and re tune until I get it sorted out.
thanks for the help!
Last edited by neoVVL; Mar 26, 2017 at 12:32 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,721
Likes: 104
From: Florida
I am literally looking to run the same, mid 600 on my 99. What I plan to do is switch to a return style fuel system, and run Lonnie's double pumper with 2 255lph intank pumps (good for 800hp) through 1200cc injectors.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,865
Likes: 27
From: WTB Kook 2" long tube 4 C5 TEXAS
you want a twin pump kit look to racetronix for a solution, they have one.
Also heads up on getting tuned for e85. Unless you self tune, you'll need to somewhat get retuned each time you fill up. That because of the differences in ethanol content in the fuel.
I'll give you an example since our cars are not flex fuel sensor happy.
You're FI on a straight (non flex fuel) e85 tune.
Lets say you have pump e85 with an ethanol content of 70% and your get tuned for a WOT AFR of 11.5 (using the gas scale) and everything is happy.
Lets say a month later you pump e85 but now has 40% ethanol content. Without making any changes to the tune your WOT AFR will now be richer, lets say something like 11.0 AFR
The third scenario, you pump e85 with 85% ethanol content. Again without making any changes to the original tune your new WOT AFR will be leaner, maybe like 12.0 AFR.
Just something to consider when going e85 in a non flex fuel car. If the car was flex fuel capable it would see the changes in ethanol % and add or subtract fuel amounts to keep the AFR on target
Also heads up on getting tuned for e85. Unless you self tune, you'll need to somewhat get retuned each time you fill up. That because of the differences in ethanol content in the fuel.
I'll give you an example since our cars are not flex fuel sensor happy.
You're FI on a straight (non flex fuel) e85 tune.
Lets say you have pump e85 with an ethanol content of 70% and your get tuned for a WOT AFR of 11.5 (using the gas scale) and everything is happy.
Lets say a month later you pump e85 but now has 40% ethanol content. Without making any changes to the tune your WOT AFR will now be richer, lets say something like 11.0 AFR
The third scenario, you pump e85 with 85% ethanol content. Again without making any changes to the original tune your new WOT AFR will be leaner, maybe like 12.0 AFR.
Just something to consider when going e85 in a non flex fuel car. If the car was flex fuel capable it would see the changes in ethanol % and add or subtract fuel amounts to keep the AFR on target
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Apple Valley MN
you want a twin pump kit look to racetronix for a solution, they have one.
Also heads up on getting tuned for e85. Unless you self tune, you'll need to somewhat get retuned each time you fill up. That because of the differences in ethanol content in the fuel.
I'll give you an example since our cars are not flex fuel sensor happy.
You're FI on a straight (non flex fuel) e85 tune.
Lets say you have pump e85 with an ethanol content of 70% and your get tuned for a WOT AFR of 11.5 (using the gas scale) and everything is happy.
Lets say a month later you pump e85 but now has 40% ethanol content. Without making any changes to the tune your WOT AFR will now be richer, lets say something like 11.0 AFR
The third scenario, you pump e85 with 85% ethanol content. Again without making any changes to the original tune your new WOT AFR will be leaner, maybe like 12.0 AFR.
Just something to consider when going e85 in a non flex fuel car. If the car was flex fuel capable it would see the changes in ethanol % and add or subtract fuel amounts to keep the AFR on target
Also heads up on getting tuned for e85. Unless you self tune, you'll need to somewhat get retuned each time you fill up. That because of the differences in ethanol content in the fuel.
I'll give you an example since our cars are not flex fuel sensor happy.
You're FI on a straight (non flex fuel) e85 tune.
Lets say you have pump e85 with an ethanol content of 70% and your get tuned for a WOT AFR of 11.5 (using the gas scale) and everything is happy.
Lets say a month later you pump e85 but now has 40% ethanol content. Without making any changes to the tune your WOT AFR will now be richer, lets say something like 11.0 AFR
The third scenario, you pump e85 with 85% ethanol content. Again without making any changes to the original tune your new WOT AFR will be leaner, maybe like 12.0 AFR.
Just something to consider when going e85 in a non flex fuel car. If the car was flex fuel capable it would see the changes in ethanol % and add or subtract fuel amounts to keep the AFR on target
In my area we've got a few stations that actually keep e83+ in the pump year round (been verified and frequently tested). Also once you get the sumer blends if you stick to the same fuel company it's fairly consistent. If you were to tune on the absolute edge of safety margin sure, you'd probably need to adjust the tune frequently but e85 is an easy fuel to tune. You generally find the best afr and timing is well before the limits of the set up. You're right, ideally you'd use a flex sensor and never have to worry, or take my aproach and keep the fuel used consistent enough. I'm not blindly filling up with unknown fuel. But it's good info, a lot of people aren't aware how vast the fluctuations can be with "e85".
Also racetronix doesnt have a solution for the early c5 tanks....
Racer
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 258
Likes: 45
From: Finland
I get 620hp (E85 fuel) with Walbro 450 pump and KB 40A BAP. I also make new wires to pump and use stock harness only to control relay. My brother make that pump to fit in stock bucket. He also make new power connector to tank plate.
I use 3bar base fuel pressure.
I use 3bar base fuel pressure.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,375
Likes: 97
From: Somewhere in the Mid 9's TX
Build your fuel system for 250hp more than you intend to run. My fuel system will support 750-800 on E, but I won't go there. 1000 on pump or race gas won't be a big deal. It's already been there.
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,673
Likes: 370
From: Forney TX
Where did your brother get the power connector? Did he make it from scratch? That's pretty cool. I use a custom steel fitting with O-rings and filled with Teflon that houses 4 silver-tinned, Teflon jacketed 10ga wires.
Also, you may have done something about my next comment, but I wanted to comment to the members about using caution when reusing the factory bucket. The stock pump assembly includes a jet pump that bleeds fuel into the bucket to keep the pump submerged in fuel. The other pumps like the 450 don't include that jet pump strategy, so it's important to take measures to make sure the pump gets plenty of fuel.
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Offering products from A&A Superchargers, East Coast Superchargers, Mechman Alternators, Mantic clutches, RPS clutches, Kooks Headers, Lakewood, LG, Brian Tooley Racing, Comp Cams, FAST, ARP, UPP Turbo systems, Wiseco, Callies, K1, MAST Motorsports, Haltech and many more. PM me for details.
Offering products from A&A Superchargers, East Coast Superchargers, Mechman Alternators, Mantic clutches, RPS clutches, Kooks Headers, Lakewood, LG, Brian Tooley Racing, Comp Cams, FAST, ARP, UPP Turbo systems, Wiseco, Callies, K1, MAST Motorsports, Haltech and many more. PM me for details.
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Racer
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 258
Likes: 45
From: Finland
Have you already been running your system at 3 bar? If so, what are you doing to manage the fuel transfer circuit because I've never seen one work below about 50psi base pressure with out doing some custom work.
Where did your brother get the power connector? Did he make it from scratch? That's pretty cool. I use a custom steel fitting with O-rings and filled with Teflon that houses 4 silver-tinned, Teflon jacketed 10ga wires.
Also, you may have done something about my next comment, but I wanted to comment to the members about using caution when reusing the factory bucket. The stock pump assembly includes a jet pump that bleeds fuel into the bucket to keep the pump submerged in fuel. The other pumps like the 450 don't include that jet pump strategy, so it's important to take measures to make sure the pump gets plenty of fuel.
Where did your brother get the power connector? Did he make it from scratch? That's pretty cool. I use a custom steel fitting with O-rings and filled with Teflon that houses 4 silver-tinned, Teflon jacketed 10ga wires.
Also, you may have done something about my next comment, but I wanted to comment to the members about using caution when reusing the factory bucket. The stock pump assembly includes a jet pump that bleeds fuel into the bucket to keep the pump submerged in fuel. The other pumps like the 450 don't include that jet pump strategy, so it's important to take measures to make sure the pump gets plenty of fuel.
My brother make that connector himself. He draw that in CAD and he use machines in work to make it. Fuel bucket is working just like stock, in that pic just missing that bucket. Have to take better pics about bucket when take it out.
We measure how pressure effect.
From pump.........4,2bar.....14V.....5,66 l/min......340 l/h
Before fuel rail....4,2bar.....14V......5 l/min.........300 l/h
From pump.........3,7bar.....14V.....6,1 l/min.......367 l/h
Before fuel rail....3,7bar.....14V.....5,4 l/min.......324 l/h
Last edited by Vette97sc; Apr 13, 2017 at 02:27 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 177
Likes: 5
From: Molalla Oregon
Hey guys, I'm looking for some help sorting this fuel system out. Set up is a 02 z06 with v3si 3.8 pulley along with cam and headers. Shooting for low to mid 600whp. The issue is I want to keep running e85 but im afraid my current system isn't up to the task. It was loosing fuel pressure before I added the bap, I'm not sure if it's going to be enough. (340lhp pump and kb bap)
I was hoping there was an easy/good option duel in tank fuel pump set up but I haven't really been able to find any. Do you guys have any set ups you'd suggest? If in have to I'll just go back to gas and re tune until I get it sorted out.
thanks for the help!
I was hoping there was an easy/good option duel in tank fuel pump set up but I haven't really been able to find any. Do you guys have any set ups you'd suggest? If in have to I'll just go back to gas and re tune until I get it sorted out.
thanks for the help!
Racer
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 258
Likes: 45
From: Finland
14V 5bar 280 l/h
With Kenne bell BAP
5bar 380 l/h
4bar 450 l/h
Last edited by Vette97sc; May 25, 2017 at 02:15 PM.
