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I did the same tests with 6.2, 6.3, and 6.4 and it did not make one bit of difference. Perhaps my cam is not aggressive enough, not enough overlap for this to have any potential gains or improvement. I did get a nice long drive in, cruise cell VE table should be more or less done
Hit 4.6psi of boost today at 3800rpm.....woohoo lol. Slowly working on the tune. It was pretty lean so I stopped there and didn't get out again for the next revision.
Drove the car at least an hour and everything was fine. Parked it for a few hours, cold start, and belt is chirping pretty loud. I confirmed it was the 8 rib blower belt by spraying water.
I've never really had belt issues on any car before so kinda learning about it now. Google says misalignment or something up with a pulley or something. I did spill some oil in the engine bay a couple days ago, so in the back of my mind I'm thinking maybe somehow this contamination might finally be rearing its head or something. Google says contamination would likely show different signs than mine/spraying water wouldn't help or would make it louder, but that is the only thing I can think of that might be it.
Either way going to pull the belt and check all components out. Since it's the secondary drive, thankfully it's the easiest belt to pull and really not many parts to it... check everything out and clean everything and go from there.
Another possible thought is just pulley alignment, I was really hoping to avoid any issues like this by buying all new stuff from AA as a kit... we'll see where step 1 takes me.
Engine side sidewall of belt is getting worn and there is some belt dust on engine side as well. Definitely seeming like a pulley alignment issue. All you guys who said to get a laser alignment tool were right I guess
I thought about what the source of the issue could be and I found a post from 2013 where a guy is running the same water pump is me (ACDelco 252-846), and he had to grind down the water pump mounting point by 0.020" to get things lined up and not cause issues.
I don't have any real data yet but I have a feeling that may be it. If that's it IDK if I want to go down the road of trying to grind that thing down or just get a different/known good water pump.
Other than that I did have to clearance the ears on the water pump a bit and ever so slightly elongate the holes in the main bracket to get it to fit. My heads were milled and it was enough such that the holes didnt line up. I am pretty confident I clearanced things enough to make sure the bracket was able to sit flush.... I was consciously aware of the fact that I needed it to be to avoid possible alignment issues. Worth double checking I suppose while I'm there.
What exact (part number) pump are you guys running with no issues? For whatever reason the one I got is not talked about much on here.... it was a direct replacement for my 2003 pump and I didn't have to go to the 'newer' style neck with removable tstat.
I haven't worked on anything for the past several days.... I just need a break from it all so I don't get too frustrated. Trying to come up with any ideas and gameplan in the meantime.
So I finally got around to checking things out with laser alignment tool.
Had to calibrate the thing, it was not that close.
Blower/main bracket does not appear to be crooked, it more or less is right on the 2nd peak like it should be. Auto tensioner pulley was spot on.
I checked the secondary drive / alternator side and it was lined up perfectly. I also did this to confirm the laser tool was working right. PS pulley is off by ~1/3 rib but it's been working fine so I don't think I'm gonna touch it and that's a separate belt.
Only thing I could find off was if I spin the blower pulley as I shoot the laser, the laser walks around a bit, showing that the blower pulley "wobbles". Total wobble is maybe 1/4 a rib total? I did this at least 10 times and did the same test with the tool on the other side of the pulley and the test was the same and repeatable every time.
Also the blower pulley shows some belt rubber remains on the side
At this sort of distance I don't feel like that wobble/walk is a huge amount, but it is the only thing off that I could find.
I don't know if this small amount of wobble is typical or indicate that something might be wrong with the blower pulley or the blower internals itself. When I spun the other pulleys, they did not really walk around. Maybe the blower pulley wobble is worse once there is belt tension on it?
Going to hit up A&A and see what they think. Figured I would post up here too since it's the weekend.
Did you notice if the ribbed idler pulley on the blower assembly had any kind of wobble to it?
After dealing with a bearing squeal type noise for a long time, I sent a video of it to Josh. He recommended replacing it and said it may add some side load to the belt (making noise). I purchased a replacement (Gates 38008), and the new pulley wobbles too in exactly the same way and same amount. I emailed Josh to get confirmation that one of their new setups didn't do that, but didn't get a response.
Anyone else have this happen?
In my own case, the idle pulley for the AC belt also seemed loose and made noise when I spun it. I think that may be it, and am waiting for the new one to arrive. However, getting confirmation on the blower pulley would be great.
Last edited by Quickshift_C5; 04-30-2019 at 05:37 PM.
I have not, but I'm going to be removing it all temporarily again soon, so I will double check that.
At the end of the day, I think my issue is/was still a belt alignment issue. I think the blower pulley was fine. I used one of the main bracket spacers as a "feeler gauge" between the head and bracket and it had a little bit of tilt to it.
Not uncommon for non OEM water pumps to be off slightly....so the logical culprit for me is the water pump mounting brackets. I used an ACDelco pump, but it's their "professional series" which from what I understand is not a true OEM equivalent and made in china.
I tried to grind down the mounting ears to get it square.... I think I got it close, but my measuring procedure wasn't super accurate or consistent so its hard to say.
I thought I was in the clear, making 14+ psi, but then part of the outside rib got chewed up and broken off a bit. Basically zero belt dust. Still drives and works for the most part, but not a good long term solution.
I have an OEM water pump waiting to go on when I get the motivation.... my gut feeling is this will fix the root issue and solve everything for me.
Sorry Quickshift don't really have much info on your comment, just wanted to close the loop a little on my issues.
Nothing too exciting but figured I'd post an update to keep this section alive a bit.
Shop apparently fixed the belt alignment issues and tested the car on the street and multiple pulls on the dyno with no belt issues. Crossing my fingers.
The day I dropped the car off I found the water meth system wasn't working so I whipped up a tune with less timing and extra conservative AFR. But either way on 91 octane only it made 691/638 on their mustang dyno.
Going to just ditch the water meth for now. Might look into E85 mix in the future, the only problem is closest pump is 2 hours away. Plenty happy for now though. I'm outta the country but should be back in about a week to pick it up.
That's exactly what I've been thinking about. My Audi S3 would also benefit greatly from it and I could just use it as desired when I wanna have a little fun.
Got tired of messing with E85 and mixing it to exact ratios. Plus the nearest pump is 100 miles away and I'm at the limits of fuel system on pump gas too. So I'm just sticking with pure 91 pump gas and trying to enjoy for now. That setup should just barely keep me safe if I were to drive back down to sea level (about 15% power gain vs what I make here). I've started looking for a set of used 1000cc injectors as an alternative just to give me a little extra security, but I don't want to spend a bunch of money at this point.
Briefly looked into flex fuel, but that seems like a hassle on its own. My car is a late 2003 so its basically a 2004, but apparently all 03s got the older style PCM. So I'd have to swap all that and then switch tuning software yadda yadda.... just a lot of $ and work. I'm not chasing power at this point, so what's the point of going thru all of that. If I go to an event and want a little extra protection, I can throw in a can of octane booster or something.
3rd gear around 5500 (peak torque) the tires wont hold down the power anymore so time to buy new tires. I bought some cheapy Toyo T1 sports back in the day and they did better than I expected, but I knew this was coming sooner or later. Probably going to get R888R all around, but spending a little time to consider maybe something a little more Drag-radial like NT555R or ET Street S/S. Used to be my track car where I really valued handling, but honestly this is just my weekend nice weather hot rod now, so maybe giving up a little handling/steering feel would be an OK compromise.
Still not a single SC belt issue so life is good there. I do have a squealing secondary drive belt (the little 4 rib guy that powers the accessories) on startup only when the alternator is putting load on the belt and the belt is still cold. I bought a RPM belt to put on it eventually the next time I have all the belts off. It's the belt that does not have an auto tensioner, so I suspect it has since stretched a little since I originally put it on. RPM belt is supposed to be a lot stiffer, so seems like a good option for a manual only tensioned setup. We'll see. I just let it idle/warm up in the driveway a bit before I drive so I'm not squealing leaving the neighborhood lol.
Now that I've finally got past the big belt issues I have a slew of little things I've put off forever that I will try to wrap up now.
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
C5 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
I like the et street ss a lot, they have done well for me... I have never used the r888r but a lot of the real fast guys at half mile events use them, not sure if it's because of the traction or stability at well over 200mph... I used the regular r888 and didn't care for them too much and not a fan of the nt555r either, the nt05r is very good though and would be another one to consider... do you have a newer or older style secondary drive?
I like the et street ss a lot, they have done well for me... I have never used the r888r but a lot of the real fast guys at half mile events use them, not sure if it's because of the traction or stability at well over 200mph... I used the regular r888 and didn't care for them too much and not a fan of the nt555r either, the nt05r is very good though and would be another one to consider... do you have a newer or older style secondary drive?
I think nt05r is exactly what id like, but no go for c5z wheels, which I otherwise like and don't really swap. So with that seems the newer r888r might be the best option.
I assume it's the newest style. Bought it new from AA about a year ago.
I just read thru this from the beginning What a journey but a ton learned along the way. Good stuff. What's funny is, I also was having belt/pulley noises and slowly one by one I'm taking care of it. I replaced the ribbed idler on the SC bracket and the smooth one near the alternator. thought they were making noise Then my belt started to squeak real loud and did the water test. For sure it needed to be replaced and went with the same Gates HD green belt as before. Weird it only last about 10k hard miles NOW I'm chasing another noise which I'm believing to be coming from my OEM automatic tensioner that's on the SC bracket. Just yesterday i picked up a new Gates tensioner. Why? because it sounds like to be coming from there lol. Otherwise the only other pulley that hasn't been replaced on the SC bracket would be the manual j-bracket tensioner but that's about 25k miles old. Came new with the A&A v3 si kit back in 2015 iirc about 25k miles ago
Btw, all these noises appeared withing weeks of each other. Coincidence? I have no clue atm.
Anyways, I'll be following your thread and hope to learn more from your journey and I'm sorry if I went off too much there lol.
Car has been flawless since the shop fixed the alignment issue from hell. It's a standard gates belt and it basically shows no signs of wear. I don't daily the car by any means, but I usually beat on it some whenever I take it out.
My 4 rib belt that powers the alternator and PS pulley slips though on a cold startup. Squeals pretty good and you can literally correlate the voltage gauge vs belt noise, so pretty sure it's just the added load on the alternator right after a cold start and that little 4 rib belt that doesn't have a tensioner just isn't right enough. Sadly it's a bear to reach.... I'll fix it one of these days. Not an issue other than right after startup, I even logged voltage at WOT to make sure. Just a little embarrassing.
I took a gamble on my fuel system not being totally awesome and that's probably my next thing to upgrade. I don't think I am outflowing the pump (450 + bap), but fuel pressure does drop to around 52psi at high rpm WOT and makes the injectors have to work overtime. I hit around 80 DC, but this is at 4300', so I would like to have more headroom. Running deka 80s.
I think an in tank 525 + BAP with return line will suit my needs, I just need to decide if I want to build the system to support full E85 or not while I'm there. Either way I have to drop the tanks so I'm dreading it and will probably still put it off for some time. Keep my 450, remove BAP, convert to returnless and install external AEM 380 or something is probably my plan B. External pumps but have to worry a little more about fuel starvation, but then again I can't think of a scenario where I'm driving around on 1/8 tank driving the car hard, so maybe it's not as big of a deal as I've made it out to be in my head. Plan C is dual 450 in tank Fore setup...this is probably the best all around, but also most $$ all around lol.
I forgot to mention that I did an experiment going back to a MAF / scaled tune. Installed an awesome 3.5" maf housing and LS3 card style MAF.
I got fueling dialed in pretty well and it ended up just barely maxing the MAF (12k hz). Again I'm at 4300', so having zero headroom isn't a great idea. I didn't feel like spending more money on parts to go to a 3.75 or 4" MAF housing, and honestly, my SD tune drove a lot smoother at low load and idle conditions. I believe I scaled all the required tables and the fact that it fired right up and fuel trims were +/- 5 tells me I didn't screw up anything major. That's not to say a MAF tune couldn't be as good as my SD tune....but I guess my SD tune was just well dialed in and didn't feel like pressing forward for those reasons. You hear lots of MAF vs SD tune talk and I just wanted to try it for myself.
I ended up modding my A&A charge piping utilizing some of the parts I got for the MAF conversion and I think things fit a little better now too.
I've been so tied up on the other thread in this section I totally forgot about the rest of them.
On the fuel system, I would definitely say go all in. Since I'm on the early style fuel tanks I actually bought and received the RSI dual pump hanger with twin 525 pumps and a Fore FC3 triple pump controller. I figured I'd rather have the headroom for any type and amount of fuel I may possibly want in the future. The FC3 is a really cool controller with built in relays and fuses to power up to three pumps with two separate triggers(pump 1&2 on trigger 1, pump 3 on trigger 2). I originally bought it for my surge tank setup so trigger 1 would power the lift pump and first surge pump, trigger 2 would power the second surge pump. Just something to think about.
01-17-2019, 12:42 AM
