Headers or no headers
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,784
Likes: 408
From: Graham, Texas
Headers or no headers
I am doing a magnuson on my 2002 z06 and my wife's 2002 convertible. Are headers worth the problems and expense? Headers pretty expensive and I have heard that the factory ones are pretty damn good.
Comments?
Thanks,
Darin
Comments?
Thanks,
Darin
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: Houston Texas
Re: Headers or no headers (ZR-1DUDE)
I would think that the supercharger is more of a problem then the headers. I would go for it. It would only add effeiciency of the supercharger. I would prolly do the LGM headers or the Stainless works headers.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,161
Likes: 5
From: Richmond VA
Re: Headers or no headers (ZR-1DUDE)
I keep asking myself the same question. I plan on doing S/C upgrade soon and asked a simiar question earlier on the forum. I am going to do the install myself and if everything goes well, and I am content with the performance of no headers, I might just leave them stock.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,423
Likes: 0
From: western colorado colorado
Re: Headers or no headers (ZR-1DUDE)
The headers will compliment the blower, remember the headers will flow better...A great move with the blower :cheers:
[Modified by dbvettez06, 11:38 AM 5/6/2003]
[Modified by dbvettez06, 11:38 AM 5/6/2003]
Team Owner
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 25,343
Likes: 222
From: Frisco, TX
Re: Headers or no headers (ZR-1DUDE)
Darin -- I've seen lots of folks theorize about that here, but I have yet to see convincing before and after #s. Of course, that could be b/c most people get the headers at the same time as the S/C so they can't account for how much HP the headers themselves provided.
Here's a thread where a forum member added LGM headers to a Magnacharger on his Z06, presumably one of the better ones out there, and the results you can view to see what you think. I'm unclear what changes were made to the cats at the same time? :confused:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=502832
If it were me and I was putting that much more $$ on top of the SC, it'd be in a cam, instead. Just my $0.02. Good luck. :seeya
[Modified by SteveL2, 12:45 PM 5/6/2003]
Here's a thread where a forum member added LGM headers to a Magnacharger on his Z06, presumably one of the better ones out there, and the results you can view to see what you think. I'm unclear what changes were made to the cats at the same time? :confused:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=502832
If it were me and I was putting that much more $$ on top of the SC, it'd be in a cam, instead. Just my $0.02. Good luck. :seeya
[Modified by SteveL2, 12:45 PM 5/6/2003]
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,026
Likes: 0
From: Renaissance Festival TAZ the Wolfdog (R.I.P.)
Re: Headers or no headers (SteveL2)
If it were me and I was putting that much more $$ on top of the SC, it'd be in a cam, instead. Just my $0.02. Good luck. :seeya
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,049
Likes: 1
From: kansas city MO
Re: Headers or no headers (ZR-1DUDE)
Headers...~$1000
Labor........~$400
Tune.........~$500. If you're doing it all at the same time, you may not incur this cost.
Otherwise, if you're adding it after the SC is installed & tuned, you're looking at ~$2000 for a gain of 15-20hp.
Been there , done that & would not do it again.
Cam swap is a better investment. Blower cam for ~$300+, install ~$600+. For about $1000 you get 20-30hp.
Labor........~$400
Tune.........~$500. If you're doing it all at the same time, you may not incur this cost.
Otherwise, if you're adding it after the SC is installed & tuned, you're looking at ~$2000 for a gain of 15-20hp.
Been there , done that & would not do it again.
Cam swap is a better investment. Blower cam for ~$300+, install ~$600+. For about $1000 you get 20-30hp.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Re: Headers or no headers (boblackhardtop)
If you would do ATI on one and Mag on the other, I bet you'd be more satisfied with the ati. It can grow to meet your needs by being more receptive to h/c packages along with headers and the rest of the goodies. Most problems have a fix now and the more and more mags and vortecs are sold-it's being found that they have their problems too. The ati allows you to be a total sleeper too. Just food for thought to do something different instead of having two vettes alike.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Team Owner
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 25,343
Likes: 222
From: Frisco, TX
Re: Headers or no headers (boblackhardtop)
Headers...~$1000
Labor........~$400
Tune.........~$500. If you're doing it all at the same time, you may not incur this cost.
Otherwise, if you're adding it after the SC is installed & tuned, you're looking at ~$2000 for a gain of 15-20hp.
Been there , done that & would not do it again. . . .
Labor........~$400
Tune.........~$500. If you're doing it all at the same time, you may not incur this cost.
Otherwise, if you're adding it after the SC is installed & tuned, you're looking at ~$2000 for a gain of 15-20hp.
Been there , done that & would not do it again. . . .
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,377
Likes: 14
From: Kansas City MO
Re: Headers or no headers (SteveL2)
Headers...~$1000
Labor........~$400
Tune.........~$500. If you're doing it all at the same time, you may not incur this cost.
Otherwise, if you're adding it after the SC is installed & tuned, you're looking at ~$2000 for a gain of 15-20hp.
Been there , done that & would not do it again. . . .
Bob, I thank you for the post. So far, it's the only one that seems to have real #s to support it. :cheers:
Labor........~$400
Tune.........~$500. If you're doing it all at the same time, you may not incur this cost.
Otherwise, if you're adding it after the SC is installed & tuned, you're looking at ~$2000 for a gain of 15-20hp.
Been there , done that & would not do it again. . . .
Bob, I thank you for the post. So far, it's the only one that seems to have real #s to support it. :cheers:
then he got some headers:
TTS headers on GP sale: $1000
labor (did it himself): $0
dyno tune (didn't bother with this): $0
the look on everybody's faces when he (repeatedly) dynoed 335 rwhp and 350 rwtq: PRICELESS!
note that he gained ~25 rwhp and 20 rwtq, and had ALOT more area under the curve. plus, his car sounds nasty as hell at WOT with headers and loudmouth.
i really think the key is which headers you buy. i.e. (obviously) don't buy restrictive 1 5/8" headers for a superstroker motor. and conversely, don't buy 1 7/8" headers for a stock ls1. my buddy with the TTS picked up big numbers, but i have another friend with very similar bolt-ons who didn't pick up jack (+16rwhp, +20rwtq, but only at upper rpms, and lost alot of area under the curve at low rpms) under the curve after installing TPIS headers.
i really dunno. its starting to look like c5 headers are (literally) a crap shoot.
[Modified by tattooed, 11:50 PM 5/6/2003]
ok, i fixed the incorrect #s for you Joey. thanks for poiting out that i was about 100 off on your hp and tq. hopefully everybody realized that the 210 should have been a 310. :)
[Modified by tattooed, 12:23 PM 5/7/2003]
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,537
Likes: 84
From: St. Joseph MO
Cruise-In III Veteran
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Re: Headers or no headers (tattooed)
then again, i have a buddy with a 2001 coupe who had vortex and slp loudmouth, and put down 210/215 rwhp/rwtq.
then he got some headers:
TTS headers on GP sale: $1000
labor (did it himself): $0
dyno tune (didn't bother with this): $0
the look on everybody's faces when he (repeatedly) dynoed 335 rwhp and 350 rwtq: PRICELESS!
note that he gained 25 rwhp and 35 rwtq, and had ALOT more area under the curve. plus, his car sounds nasty as hell at WOT with headers and loudmouth.
i really think the key is which headers you buy. i.e. (obviously) don't buy restrictive 1 5/8" headers for a superstroker motor. and conversely, don't buy 1 7/8" headers for a stock ls1. my buddy with the TTS picked up big numbers, but i have another friend with very similar bolt-ons who didn't pick up jack (+3rwhp, +5rwtq, but lost area under the curve at low rpms) after installing TPIS headers.
i really dunno. its starting to look like c5 headers are (literally) a crap shoot.
TTS headers on GP sale: $1000
labor (did it himself): $0
dyno tune (didn't bother with this): $0
the look on everybody's faces when he (repeatedly) dynoed 335 rwhp and 350 rwtq: PRICELESS!
note that he gained 25 rwhp and 35 rwtq, and had ALOT more area under the curve. plus, his car sounds nasty as hell at WOT with headers and loudmouth.
i really think the key is which headers you buy. i.e. (obviously) don't buy restrictive 1 5/8" headers for a superstroker motor. and conversely, don't buy 1 7/8" headers for a stock ls1. my buddy with the TTS picked up big numbers, but i have another friend with very similar bolt-ons who didn't pick up jack (+3rwhp, +5rwtq, but lost area under the curve at low rpms) after installing TPIS headers.
i really dunno. its starting to look like c5 headers are (literally) a crap shoot.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 129
Likes: 1
From: Calgary Alberta
Re: Headers or no headers (billreid1@***.net)
Davenport ( our shop), installed a set of slp headers, high flow cats, and h-pipe as they sell it, left rear titanium exhaust alone, added a donaldson on a 2003 z06 - car picked up 25 horsepower at the rear wheels..for your info. :)
They also did the same set up on a 2002 c-5 convertible with a b-b exhaust (route 66), and gained 24 horsepower at rear wheels.
They also did the same set up on a 2002 c-5 convertible with a b-b exhaust (route 66), and gained 24 horsepower at rear wheels.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,049
Likes: 1
From: kansas city MO
Re: Headers or no headers (octaneman)
I read the post as SC + headers or no headers.
On a N/A car you can add headers & gain power w/o tunning. On SC'd vehicle you'll definitively need to retuned it. I LOST 10 RWHP adding the FLP header system to my ATI SC'd C5 ( from overcompensation of fuel. Car run pig rich) . That said if you intend to go well over 500rwhp then a set of headers will be well worth it.
For a magnuson, I still say blower cam swap is a much better investment.
Compare apple to apple :D
[Modified by boblackhardtop, 10:08 PM 5/7/2003]
On a N/A car you can add headers & gain power w/o tunning. On SC'd vehicle you'll definitively need to retuned it. I LOST 10 RWHP adding the FLP header system to my ATI SC'd C5 ( from overcompensation of fuel. Car run pig rich) . That said if you intend to go well over 500rwhp then a set of headers will be well worth it.
For a magnuson, I still say blower cam swap is a much better investment.
Compare apple to apple :D
[Modified by boblackhardtop, 10:08 PM 5/7/2003]
Team Owner
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 25,343
Likes: 222
From: Frisco, TX
Re: Headers or no headers (boblackhardtop)
I read the post as SC + headers or no headers.
On a N/A car you can add headers & gain power w/o tunning. On SC'd vehicle you'll definitively need to retuned it. I LOST 10 RWHP adding the FLP header system to my ATI SC'd C5 ( from overcompensation of fuel. Car run pig rich) . That said if you intend to go well over 500rwhp then a set of headers will be well worth it.
On a N/A car you can add headers & gain power w/o tunning. On SC'd vehicle you'll definitively need to retuned it. I LOST 10 RWHP adding the FLP header system to my ATI SC'd C5 ( from overcompensation of fuel. Car run pig rich) . That said if you intend to go well over 500rwhp then a set of headers will be well worth it.
On the other hand, if someone also wants to improve the sound, then they simply have to decide whether that's worth it to them. :seeya
[Modified by SteveL2, 4:20 PM 5/7/2003]
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: lakeland fl
Re: Headers or no headers (SteveL2)
Well, I do know that 12 hp is about one car length in the quarter mile, so if you're going to be drag racing, headers look like a value, but anything less, why bother? The hp gains come at the high end of the rpm band-- how often do you really drive at 6000rpm?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,784
Likes: 408
From: Graham, Texas
Re: Headers or no headers (johncazin)
I am going to pass on the headers.
2002 LS1 with borla stingers and the magnuson 407.8 rwhp. baselined at 308. No headers...looks pretty good to me.
D.
2002 LS1 with borla stingers and the magnuson 407.8 rwhp. baselined at 308. No headers...looks pretty good to me.
D.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 25,343
Likes: 222
From: Frisco, TX
Re: Headers or no headers (ZR-1DUDE)
I am going to pass on the headers.
2002 LS1 with borla stingers and the magnuson 407.8 rwhp. baselined at 308. No headers...looks pretty good to me.
D.
2002 LS1 with borla stingers and the magnuson 407.8 rwhp. baselined at 308. No headers...looks pretty good to me.
D.
When you go back, ask John where my "extra" 15 hp went for me? :troll :jester
