JakeL

I've read a lot about the various belt issues getting the 'bugs' worked out of ATI systems, but what about the Vortechs? Are they basically debugged at this point? Aside from a few belt spacing issues, any other things to be concerned about or watch with them?

Second, I have seen a few Vortech installs with the blower on the passenger side of the car, versus Vortech's driver's side orientation. What is going on there - different blower, or different kit involved?

Third, are the blowers that Vortech is shipping with these kits effectively quiet at idle? I heard a few procharged cars this past weekend, and to be honest, hated the extra noise. :nopity

Turbos sound great, :hurray: to my ear, blowers sound awful :nonod: , so if the Vortechs are quieter, that's a bit of a decision point for me. I'm wondering - when off boost, are the Vortechs as civil as the Magnussons seem to be?

Lastly, how much control does one have over boost threshold RPM in superchargers? I have read they all seem to start making boost around 3000 RPM - is there any way to get boost sooner, without making 35psi at redline? The reason I ask being, for road racing and autocrossing, a bit more grunt from 2000-3000 would be excellent.

Thanks! Sure I'll think of more at some point...

-Jake


[Modified by JakeL, 12:55 AM 8/14/2003]

Andy@A&ACorvette

The Vortech is quieter but not totally silent. It is , however, a much smoother sound.
I think only some of the early ones had belt issues.
Vortechs all mount on the drivers side. Some other companies using the Vortech blower have developed their own brackets etc to mount on the other side. They are usually much more expensive.

THe Vortech SEEMS to make boost a little lower than the Procharger but I'd have to compare dyno graphs to be sure. THe Vortech is a more complicated install than the Procharger and more expensive to purchase.
It's $1000 more than my FMSI Procharger kit.

JakeL

Andy, great reply, thanks!

Do you have a few dyno graphs handy to try and directly compare the curves of the Vortech and ATI's? I'm particularly interested in the 2000-4000 behavior - we all know they're both beasts up top :crazy:

Seems like I have seen Vortechs going for about $6,500, is that correct, give or take?

Are there any implications to the fact that the Vortechs use the engine's oiling system, versus the ATI's self-contained unit, or is it just a "6 of one, half-dozen of the other" kind of deal - i.e. it doesn't really matter much?

Lastly, do any of ya'll out there have any sound clips of your Vortech car at idle? (or in any other condition?)

Thanks!

-Jake

kromberg

Cerra Racing sells the Polished Vortech kit for about $6200ish, cheaper than any ATI kit I have seen. Plus you have to get Andy's or Mike's belt bracket fix for another $300ish.

Keith

7LitreC5

If you'd like to take a drive from Ft. Collins down to Colorado Springs you can hear mine live and in person.

I have it apart right now. I am putting in the spacers to correct the belt alignment problem (mine is an early kit). I should have it roadworthy next week.

As far as Vortech's mounted on the right side there are 3 places that I know of that do it that way. They are PTC (Performance Technical Center), RMCR (Rocky Mountain Competitive Research in Colorado Springs), and Dragon Motorsports (non-aftercooled somewhere up near Denver).

GR8-LIFE

Regarding Belt slippage, to date I've observed 2 posts (by 2 different owners) of Vortech Belt sliipage, 1 Post on Magna Belt Slippage and I lost count on the ATI

Do an archived search on "VORTECH" and you may find more info

JakeL

Mark - you've got an IM ;) I'm still bummed you didn't make it to that AutoX a few months back. Do you ever have occaision to be up in Ft. C or Denverish?

Every shop I have talked to said that H&C cars are rather weak up here (about 110mph in the 1/4 max), and that the Magnusson just can't move enough air to compensate for altitude. Is that a major factor in why you chose a Vortech? I recall you saying you wanted Z06 sea level power at this altitude.

There's a fellow in the springs with a Silver Z06 that's been to a few autocrosses that has his car Vortech'd, and it is on the passenger side, and is still aftercooled. I think his was an RMCR setup, but the name wasn't familiar to me at the time, so I don't recall. What is the reason for putting them over there? Is there some failing in the positioning on the driver's side? Seems like it wouldn't really matter much?

This guy's aftercooler was where the stock coolant overflow tank goes, and he had a coolant tank placed where the OE battery goes, and his battery was in the trunk. Wonder what the cost is relative to the normal Vortech setup, and the reason for it, and if it justifies the added cost? *shrug*

On a lighter note, I ran into a dude in a procharged V6 mustang :rolleyes: :lolg: on Saturday. He thought my air tank in the hatch (I was going racing at SCR) was a nitrous tank. Took him to school anyway...all that money and it still could barely accelerate! Poor guy. That said, the noise that blower was making...oy vay. :nonod:

Thanks for all the replies guys!


-Jake

SleepieAce

$5400 for my ATI kit (also from Cerra) :thumbs: As far as the oil goes, I think it's 6 of one, half dozen another. I like the self contained because it's easier to return to stock if I want to trade in :cheers:


[Modified by SleepieAce, 3:13 PM 8/14/2003]

Racer

One thing that I noticed is the pins that Vortech uses to pin the crank are really no bigger than a watch strap pin. I sheared mine like a hot knife through butter, which in turn loosened my harmonic balancer bolt which in turn threw my A/C belt. No other damage but I had to get it flat decked to my tuner and 5 days later I got it back. My tuner decided not to put the Vortech pins back in but upgraded to the ATI pin, as it is like ten times bigger than the Vortech pins. He also, installed the new ARP harmonic balancer bolt instead of the stock one. So far so good. :cheers:

7LitreC5

I just sent you a pic of the dyno. I don't get up to Ft. C much. I do get to Boulder once in a while for work. Sorry that I didn't make it to that autocross. I will be at the one that the CSCC will be having on Oct 5th for sure since I am helping organize it.

The major factor to me in choosing the Vortech was that I wanted quiet that fit under the hood. A secondary factor is that my dad has had a Vortech V1 on his C4 for 10 years/35k miles and has had zero problems with it.

The guy with the Silver Z is Bryan (Yano on the forum). I was down at shop numerous times while he was having it installed. It is a sell thought out setup and has some advantages/disadvantages as compared to the Vortech kit. The setup that Yano has is turn-key only and costs either $8k or $9k (I don't remember which) out the door.

The nice thing about the way Vortech does it as compared to some of the others that use the Vortech head unit, is that Vortech's setup keeps the distance from the blower discharge to the after cooler and aftercooler to the throttle body very short.

JakeL

Mark - thanks for answering all these questions. Will be good archive info.

Thanks for mentioning the club - looks like a lot of good stuff to participate in.

If you know them, would you care to elucidate the other advantages/disadvantages of the various locations? I recall somebody mentioning slight rubbing problems with one piece of the kit on something when really running the car hard, but I can't dig up the post with the right keyword in the archives.

I also noticed that he (Yano ) is running a T-trim blower, rather than the SQ (?) included standard in the C5/Z06 kits. Does this mean, (like turbos?) that it he doesn't have as much boost early on, until the compressor gets spinning fast enough, or is the reverse true? The boost/RPM relationship of blowers is not something I'm used to.

( Edit: Found Yano's post talking about this: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=541106 )

if my holly account is acting up for e-mailing that picture (nothing yet), then try jake.latham@comcast.net

-Jake


[Modified by JakeL, 7:16 PM 8/14/2003]


[Modified by JakeL, 7:20 PM 8/14/2003]

av8or3

I have one of the early Vortech kits for the Z06 and after installing the spacers that correct the belt throwing trouble I'm very satisfied.It is very
nearly silent at idle and the normal engine noises drown out the whine once
it get spinning and the boost is very reliable,comes on at about 3000 rpm to
a max of 5 psi (as advertised). I had to install a Boost-a-pump to keep the fuel pressure up and NGK TR6 plugs to help with pre-ignition and thats all.
Car runs real good,still gets good mpg and drivability is as good or better
than stock.
I'm hoping that with the low boost I can count on long term reliability(it's been
18k since the installation).I can recommend ANDY @ A&A Corvette Specialties
(sold me the kit) and Vortech (who helped me with support when I started
throwing belts) and would not hesitate to do more business with either of them. Good luck,there is nothing like a blown 'Vette. :reddevil

JakeL

Another questio for you Vortech guys - how much noise does your blower make? Can you hear it standing by the car with the hood down? Inside the car with the windows down? Windows up?

I know the old S-trims were as obnoxious as the prochargers, but I'm hoping that the S-trims are pretty quiet?

-Jake

Racer

Very, very slight whistle, that's it. :cheers:

jbsblownc5

I started out with the SQ, which is very quiet at idle and fairly quiet at wot, providing the cogged belt is at the right tention. I have since moved on to the T-trim. I too was worried about the extra whine. The T-trim is a heavier duty blower, bearings and the like, and makes boost earlier. I now also have more boost on the top as well. A double bonus I guess!!
I too like to roadrace and run the canyons. The T-trim gives me plenty of midrange torque and comes on very soon.
JB

JakeL

So is the T-Trim a good deal louder?

How is the midrange with the SQ?

-Jake

jbsblownc5

The T-trim is noticeably louder then the SQ, but I have gotten used to it very quickly. It actually sounds pretty cool! Boost can be addicting, so take that into account when you start out.

The SQ has nice midrange, but I'd never go back after eperiencing the T-trim. :D
JB

JakeL

nice 2-way conversation here.

jb - could the extra midrange of the T-trim be largely just due to the fact you're spinning it faster and getting more boost sooner?

Second, how much does the Vortech aftercooler heat-soak when you're running it at the track? Does it stabilize somewhat, or continue to get warmer during a 20 minute session? Ever put a temp gauge to see how it's doing?

Do you have any off throttle (engine braking?) odd behavior? surging etc?

630whp has got to be a riot on the racetrack :crazy:

-Jake

7LitreC5

Mine is also very quiet. You can just hear it at idle slightly. At any speeds over idle the engine and exhaust sounds mask any noise that the blower makes. I had a friend beside me on the highway and we both got on it. My friend said that all he could hear was the intake roar. When I ran an autocross earlier this year I spoke to several people that were watching and they all said that they could not hear the blower at all while I was running the course.

jbsblownc5