January 2003 - 487rwhp - P1SC, 3.85" pulley (8psi), 42lb injectors, no cats, stock motor
May 2003 - 522rwhp - Added cats, A&A SIC, MMS dynotune
May 2003 - Blew motor
Summer 2003 - DIY forged motor build, LS6 block, 8.65:1CR, Stage 2 heads and cam, 3.5" pulley (8psi)
November 2003 - 598rwhp* - TeamZR-1 tune (42lb injectors @ 150% duty cycle, need bigger injectors)
December 2003 - Blew stock A4
January 2004 - Installed FLP L5, Vigilante 3000, trans cooler
March 2004 - Installed Racetronix, BAP
March 2004 - 543rwhp* - 75lb injectors, TeamZR-1 tune (pig rich, bogs big time)
##Expecting 600+rwhp with 75lb injectors and tune##
May 2004 - 413rwhp Dynotuned by Nick Newton ( ) at Newtech Performance, 11AFR, 25deg advance, 2deg KR (max recorded), 5psi max observed boost, no belt slippage

Did I mention 413rwhp?!?!

*Ease calculated rwhp numbers


[Modified by blu00rdstr, 11:44 PM 5/10/2004]

 

u mean 2004 right? And hmmmmmmm?

 

Looks like you've had great results with your post-MMS work!

 

 

Whoops, fixed. Thanks.

 

All of these pulls were on DynoJet dynos, right???

 

OK spill the beans, what was the fix

 

*Ease calculated rwhp numbers. Just throw those out, they don't mean anything.

It almost sounds like your cam is too advanced or something. Did you degree it when you put it in. Most of us don't, but it could be off.

It seems like you have one of two problems. The cam or the blower. 5psi seems way too low for that pulley setup (even with a well flowing motor). Maybe you could start by trying a D1 head unit. I would let you borrow mine if you were close by.

You might also try measuring the boost up near the blower outlet to make sure there is not some strange restriction in the intercooler...


[Modified by QuickSilver2002, 9:01 AM 5/11/2004]

 

Its actually pretty easy to figure out.
You have changed your static compression ratio
Did you expect to use the same boost, on a lower compression motor and make more horsepower. It doesn't work that way. Now that your compression ratio is lower you add more boost and timing and then you make more hp. For a blower example look (and Compression Ratio closer to yours) look at Optic Z and PSJ (LS1tech). Optic runs 13lbs of boost (ATI D1) and PSJ runs I think 15lbs (Vortec YS Trim) both have 9:1 CR and both are making over 700rwhp. Run more boost...thats what having a lower CR motor is for.

 

I understand what Shinobi is saying, but look at this e-mail and he said after he put the new motor in he was still 500+ RWHP...

 

I think Shinobi'sZ is hitting it on the head....

Good Luck,

 

Got it now.
It looks like he put in a BAP and Fuel Pump and then had it retuned still using the 42lb Injectors....on a new lower CR motor and it looks like it was pig rich according to his email.

What I am trying to figure out is why the 2*KR...that is going to cost some power..it is getting KR on the dyno....I would expect the max on the dyno if any to be 1/2* or maybe 1*..but why is he getting 2* of KR on the dyno with the proper fuel system and injectors???? You need to back off the timing some to see if that corrects the KR then go from there. If you back the timing off 2* and then run the car again and you get no KR then see what power levels you are at....add boost & fuel...and see where it leaves you. 2* of KR being eliminated is not going to get you 200hp but your tuner should make every effort to get rid of the KR...then lean it out a little too...AFR between 11.7-12.2 on a dyno jet with the Fuel Tables @ zero'd out should be only .5-.8 higher on the street and you are running all forged internals anyway. You may pick up about 40-50rwhp....I would like to see you running 13-15lbs of boost on that low Compression Motor...or even 17lbs of boost using an F1 or YS Trim. Then you will be making some power.

 

Sidestep - The dyno runs were on Dynojets. The last Dynojet was brand new.

runamuck - I fixed dates in the original post, not the HP loss (yet)

Quick - The boost is really low, and has slowly dropped from 8 to 5. I might be able to go 3" pulley, but I'd probably have slippage and overspeed impeller stall. I figured the boost drop was from heads/cam, I didn't degree it, I installed it straight up (dot-dot, 0deg pin).

Shinobi'sZ - High boost was the plan, but cash flow is the barrier. I asked about F-1 blowers before Andy began testing them. I thought a 3.5" pulley on a P1SC would get me to 10 maybe 12psi as an interm boost level, but it didn't quite get it done.

Had I more experience I'd have; 1) not used MMS, 2) installed oil catch can early, 3) plan to keep the P1SC (for smog reasons), and 4) use flat top pistons for higher CR due to lower flow of the P1SC.

Something changed ever since the fuel system upgrade. Before that the car was scary fast, and it couldn't be scary fast with 413rwhp. After the fuel system upgrade the power was just not there, I figured it was just a matter of tuning.

When Nick started tuning it the AF was below 10 (off the scale) and max advance was 15deg, and 375rwhp peaking at 4500rpm falling off from there. After tuning AF is 11 (no HP change between 11 and 13), timing is 25deg, and 413rwhp stays flat from 4500rpm to 6200rpm. The flat curve seems not normal. I'll post the dynosheet when he emails it to me today.


[Modified by blu00rdstr, 8:13 AM 5/11/2004]

 

I have a remedy for these types of situations....and that is to work backwords when a problem occurs to see if what you did is the problem. Reinstall your 42lb injectors and see if you get back to where you were before you installed the 75lb injectors...that is what I would do. Check for boost leaks too or a BOV stuck open or something...anything...but go back to the 42's and see what happens.

 

The flat curve seems to indicate a weakness on the compressor side of the equation.

Do you have any data logs showing the MAF readings?

From what you said, it seems like something has changed. I agree with Shinobi that you need a better compressor, but that HP seems way too low even with your compression and the p1. I would start with a pressure check in the tubing and intercooler. It is a pain in rear, but can be done.

Here is how I would do it. Find some tin cans the right diameter. Block off each end with clamps and the cans and drill a hole for a quick disconnect air nozzle on one end (it should seal pretty well on its own, but you might need some sealant). Regulate your air compressor down to 15 or so and hook it up. If you want to get technical you can use a leakdown setup to determine the pressure drop. A little loss is no big deal, but a big leak could be part of your problem.

 

You should be able to make at least 600rwhp with a P1 so something must be broken. Check for boost leaks, inlet restrictions, and clogged exhaust. If you don't find anything there, perhaps there is a problem with the compressor itself?

 

This test sounds like a waste of time for him to me, because any leak large enough to cause such a major power loss would be plainly obvious just by listening/feeling around the hoses at idle. Worst case he could unplug the surge valve vacuum line for a few seconds at idle and listen for loud "whoosh" sounds.

 

I'm not any more knowledgable than anyone else on this...just wanted to say good luck and I hope you get it fixed.

 

Nick said it was 1-point something grams which apparently means it's moving lots of air through the MAF.

Because I was generally puzzled, I pulled the blower head unit off. The idler pulleys were hard to turn, so I replace the bearings in those. I also discovered the drain on the bottom of the blower, so I drained and flushed it. The oil was silver, probably not good. I put new oil in and put a new dayco belt on it.

Now I'm getting 8psi and laying down stripes of Drag Radial rubber in second. This backs up Shinobis'Z statement that it's an issue of boost. Only 3psi made a huge difference in power.

I sold my 42s as I was installing the 75s, which I regretted by the end of the day. I was beginning to believe JR who said that the PCM couldn't handle 75s.


[Modified by blu00rdstr, 2:01 PM 5/11/2004]

 

Silver oil? That does not sound good at all. Mine has always been very clean when I changed it (think it is a green color). I do it every other motor oil change.

Those stiff idelers could have been the root of the problem. They would cause you to loose boost and rob power all at the same time.

1.x sounds like a g/cyl #. If you have a scan tool go log some MAF data and let us know.

You might want to take it easy and get it tuned again soon. You are probably much leaner now, espeically if you are making good power and maxing out the maf.



[Modified by QuickSilver2002, 5:17 PM 5/11/2004]