SC Boost with Stock Internals?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,898
Likes: 35
From: Fairview Hts. IL
I am running 93 Octane.
The D1 definitely has a higher gear ratio, or something like that, which allows it to push more air. However, I believe the P1 actually spools up quicker?
I honestly can't tell all the pro's and con's, I do recall Andy telling me he preferred the P1 for stock cubes?
At any rate, hopefully next summer I can get some good numbers to compare results with some of the D1 folks.
The D1 definitely has a higher gear ratio, or something like that, which allows it to push more air. However, I believe the P1 actually spools up quicker?
I honestly can't tell all the pro's and con's, I do recall Andy telling me he preferred the P1 for stock cubes?
At any rate, hopefully next summer I can get some good numbers to compare results with some of the D1 folks.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,067
Likes: 62
From: Houston Texas
Originally Posted by hogurt
I am running 93 Octane.
The D1 definitely has a higher gear ratio, or something like that, which allows it to push more air. However, I believe the P1 actually spools up quicker?
I honestly can't tell all the pro's and con's, I do recall Andy telling me he preferred the P1 for stock cubes?
At any rate, hopefully next summer I can get some good numbers to compare results with some of the D1 folks.
The D1 definitely has a higher gear ratio, or something like that, which allows it to push more air. However, I believe the P1 actually spools up quicker?
I honestly can't tell all the pro's and con's, I do recall Andy telling me he preferred the P1 for stock cubes?
At any rate, hopefully next summer I can get some good numbers to compare results with some of the D1 folks.
What size pulley will I use to make 10psi with the P1.
Thanks again. B.J.
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,241
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From: Knoxville Tennessee
Originally Posted by C5kid
a questoin for you guys running the "safe tune" what exactly are you running? Now that i am reading this i am deciding if i really wanna pull my motor apart to put the forged internals in it or not.
i had my car tuned @ ECS 12* a timing @ WOT and 10.2 a/f across the rpm range
i had my car tuned @ ECS 12* a timing @ WOT and 10.2 a/f across the rpm range
I think you are leaving too much on the table with that tune, depending on your car... there is no reason to run lower than 11:1, at 10.2 your car has to be black smoking at the top end.. mine was when I first set it up and was tuning and it was only about 10.7.. I sit at 11.4-5:1 depending on the outside temperature, run 93 gas and 20 degrees of timing.. usually hitting 8.5 psi, on a cold day 9.
What is funny is.. I am making 575 RWHP so unless you want to just show people how to spin the tires there is not much reason to go beyond what I have for a street car.. I will add headers and that is about it, should be a good 10 second car on ET streets and a fun car to drive on the street.. I run drag radials around town because the F1's were worthless.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
From: Orlando Florida
Hogurt ... my power levels are in my signature but are 587 RWHP and 499 RWTQ on 92/93 octane. I am running 11.9 - 12.1 A/F ratio with 20 degrees of timing at WOT. Only have a small SC cam and still using completely stock exhaust but 918 valve springs. I believe the SC pulley size is 4.1" and I see 10 lb. boost at 6600 just before the rev limiter at 6700. Generally I shift at 6000 since I am usually just having fun and see no reason to push it further. Since I use Andy's kit, it comes with 42 lb. injectors and a boost-a-pump for fueling. No problems after 5000 miles and counting.
Later .. Larry S.
Later .. Larry S.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,477
Likes: 718
From: Black Forest CO
This had been a really interesting thread to follow. My new combination is finally going to be installed starting next week. I am sticking with the stock bottom end for now.
I'll be adding AFR 205 heads (will yield 10.2:1 CR) , a Comp 220/224 115+2 XE-R cam, and a new supercharger system using a Vortech T-Trim head unit. With my previous Vortech supercharger I was running 6.5 psi with no problems.
With theis new setup I am planning on stepping the boost up to ~8 psi. Given that so many people are running big boost successfully at sea level it sounds like 8 psi should be fine at my altitude which is 7000 feet.
I'll be adding AFR 205 heads (will yield 10.2:1 CR) , a Comp 220/224 115+2 XE-R cam, and a new supercharger system using a Vortech T-Trim head unit. With my previous Vortech supercharger I was running 6.5 psi with no problems.
With theis new setup I am planning on stepping the boost up to ~8 psi. Given that so many people are running big boost successfully at sea level it sounds like 8 psi should be fine at my altitude which is 7000 feet.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,376
Likes: 4
From: Hershey, PA, USA
Cruise-In VI Veteran
St. Jude Donor '12
that's it then.... sticken w/ the stock bottom end, getting HPtuners and deleting the CATS and leaning it out alittle so I stop carboning the cylinders up..
any one intrested in a brand new set of Diamond Forged pistons and Crower Rods New in Box
any one intrested in a brand new set of Diamond Forged pistons and Crower Rods New in Box
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Drifting
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,770
Likes: 2
From: IL
This has been a great thread...Anyway I am running 8lbs on a Vortech S trim on stock internals, I need more fuel, so I am going to go with Racetronix pump, and .918 Springs to get more RPM's...does a Differnet cam help? Can I get some Advice on this..I am making 560 RWHP now, I'd like to 50 more or so.....I dont' want to smoke the motor, but I agree with some of you other guys, I'll push it, and if it Goes POP well then it gets replaced with forged parts.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,898
Likes: 35
From: Fairview Hts. IL
I too had double springs, cam and racetronix fuel pump. 
BTW, I am not sure what size pulley I am using?
With Andy's kit, I have the P1 blower and instead of the normal 7psi pulley, I have the next smallest option (8psi pulley from the normal ATI kit).
Also, I suspect it would be putting out even more boost if I didn't add a cam and LT headers.
BTW, I am not sure what size pulley I am using?
With Andy's kit, I have the P1 blower and instead of the normal 7psi pulley, I have the next smallest option (8psi pulley from the normal ATI kit).
Also, I suspect it would be putting out even more boost if I didn't add a cam and LT headers.
Last edited by hogurt; Nov 24, 2004 at 08:25 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,474
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From: Detroit
Originally Posted by 3XBlack6spd
... running 8lbs on a Vortech S trim on stock internals, I need more fuel, so I am going to go with Racetronix pump, and .918 Springs to get more RPM's...does a Differnet cam help? Can I get some Advice on this..I am making 560 RWHP now, I'd like to 50 more or so..... ...
I would say either a nice set of 6L heads or the AFR 225's and a smaller pulley..
Cheers,
Mark
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,898
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From: Fairview Hts. IL
Originally Posted by mdhmi
610 rwhp, assuming those numbers are accurate would really be pushing it. I wouldn't bother with a cam until you're ready to forge the bottom-end: no point in doing much of the labor twice.
I would say either a nice set of 6L heads or the AFR 225's and a smaller pulley..
Cheers,
Mark
I would say either a nice set of 6L heads or the AFR 225's and a smaller pulley..
Cheers,
Mark
If he went with a cam, he could essentially lower the boost and be getting more power? Also, if he changes the heads, then he might as well change the cam. . .it won't cost any more for labor.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,898
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From: Fairview Hts. IL
Originally Posted by mdhmi
The cam helps you make power up high. The higher you spin the motor the harder you spin the blower (boost keeps growing)..
Mark
Mark
He's already got the blower. Let's pretend he's already running the blower to 6.5k RPM's. The speed the blower is going to spein, with his current cam, versus a new cam, doesn't change.
You are right the cam will allow him to make more power up high. . .but, you are incorrect to state the blower will spin faster because he is making more power up high. The blower speed is based on RPM's (in my example he's already running 6.5k RPM's).
Now, you might be right in this regard, often when you add a cam, you will also add new stronger springs which will allow you to up the rev limiter without being in danger of valve float. As a result, if he also raises the rev limiter, then you are right he will be spinning the blower faster and increasing the boost level. However, if he selects a cam, as I did (I have the 224/224 from Andy), I did NOT see an increase in boost because the actually bleeds off more air than the stock cam did.
Last edited by hogurt; Nov 25, 2004 at 04:24 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Kentucky basketball is life the rest is just details
This is a great thread. I'm thinking I'll go ahead without the forged parts for now. I'm going to do the Quicksilver mods to the PCV and move the FPR up to the rail and get it dynotuned and see where I stand.
I'm thinking about putting in a blower cam as well. Any thoughts or opinions? Should I go ahead and put heads on at the same time, or would that be pushing it? I'm running the standard twin i/c kit at 7 psi. I may also crank the boost up to 8 or 9.
I'm thinking about putting in a blower cam as well. Any thoughts or opinions? Should I go ahead and put heads on at the same time, or would that be pushing it? I'm running the standard twin i/c kit at 7 psi. I may also crank the boost up to 8 or 9.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,898
Likes: 35
From: Fairview Hts. IL
Originally Posted by SleepieAce
This is a great thread. I'm thinking I'll go ahead without the forged parts for now. I'm going to do the Quicksilver mods to the PCV and move the FPR up to the rail and get it dynotuned and see where I stand.
I'm thinking about putting in a blower cam as well. Any thoughts or opinions? Should I go ahead and put heads on at the same time, or would that be pushing it? I'm running the standard twin i/c kit at 7 psi. I may also crank the boost up to 8 or 9.
I'm thinking about putting in a blower cam as well. Any thoughts or opinions? Should I go ahead and put heads on at the same time, or would that be pushing it? I'm running the standard twin i/c kit at 7 psi. I may also crank the boost up to 8 or 9.
Ace,
If you add a cam and LT headers, you will have to go with a smaller pulley just to get the same boost numbers. However, if you added a cam and LT's, you would actually be able to run lower boost and have 50-70rwhp more than you are currently running.
To swap the heads would be quite a bit more work than simply swapping the cam. If you are going to swap heads, swapping the cam will likely not add anything to the cost. . .so you might as well swap the cam too.
BTW, since you are running the stock ATI kit, are you running the D1, or P1 blower?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Kentucky basketball is life the rest is just details
Thanks for the reply. I probably should have mentioned the exhaust as well. I've already got LTs, no cats, and Corsa x-pipe/touring exhaust. The pulley it has on it is still getting 7psi at 6K. I may just go with a cam swap along with the other stuff then tune and see where I'm at. I plan on doing the work myself.
Oh, and it's a P1.
Oh, and it's a P1.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,898
Likes: 35
From: Fairview Hts. IL
Sleepie,
Good luck. That's exactly what I did.
The reason I asked about the P1 vs. D1. . .with the stock kit (which I used to have), ATI told me I likely would not gain anything from switching to the smaller 8psi pulley. Apparently, because of the extra heat, switching to the smaller pulley the power is negated.
Now, I went ahead and switched to the smaller pulley just to see. Unfortunately, I hadn't finished tuning the car before it was crashed. The car was much more powerful when I had the cam added. Without the tune being completed, I really didn't have time to tell how much difference the pulley made. Good luck.
Good luck. That's exactly what I did.
The reason I asked about the P1 vs. D1. . .with the stock kit (which I used to have), ATI told me I likely would not gain anything from switching to the smaller 8psi pulley. Apparently, because of the extra heat, switching to the smaller pulley the power is negated.
Now, I went ahead and switched to the smaller pulley just to see. Unfortunately, I hadn't finished tuning the car before it was crashed. The car was much more powerful when I had the cam added. Without the tune being completed, I really didn't have time to tell how much difference the pulley made. Good luck.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,409
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From: Kentucky basketball is life the rest is just details
Thanks for the info. I'll hold what I got as far as pulleys go and see where I end up. If I don't like it, I'll hunt around for a D1 or a single intercooler.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,898
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From: Fairview Hts. IL
Originally Posted by SleepieAce
Thanks for the info. I'll hold what I got as far as pulleys go and see where I end up. If I don't like it, I'll hunt around for a D1 or a single intercooler.
One other warning. . .I have been told the 42lb injectors may not be large enough. I will start a new thread once we have the car tuned. Unfortunately, the weather means the tuning may not be complete until next summer.